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Capitol Officer Who Shot Ashli Babbit...

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  • #91
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Compare "no idea what weapon[s] she might be concealing" which means no weapons are either visible or apparent to...
    In fact, it was clear that both of her hands were visible in the window as she was trying to climb through -- no weapons.

    • someone wanted for an ambush murder and as police surrounded him pulled a gun out.
    • someone who is seen by arriving police throwing Molotov cocktails (gasoline firebombs) at vehicles parked next to an ICE facility, trying to ignite the large propane tank attached to the building (think big bomb) and then trying to shoot the police with an AR-15 rifle (but it jammed).


    And you serious want to weigh "no idea what weapon[s] she might be concealing" against either of those?
    It's H_A, what do you expect?

    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      We need to bookmark the liberals arguments for the use of force here for the next time we have a thread about the police killing an "unarmed" black man.
      And the conservatives' arguments.

      And Civildiscourse's question (in quote marks) about why didn't he shoot her in the leg, was a clear reference to the argument liberals like to use when the police use deadly force against some criminal like Michael Brown instead of killing them.
      Thanks for the explanation. I searched the whole thread looking for that quote. Couldn't figure out what the quotation marks were for.


      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        In this video, you can very clearly see the tactical police coming up the stairs, meeting no resistance, and the officers who had been blocking the door are relieved of duty, because they were not in tactical gear.

        You can also see Babbit climbing through the window - both hands clearly visible from the inside - and she was still shot in the neck.

        I was busy today and missed much of this ongoing conversation (a good conversation, by the way).

        I'd just like to add that this additional video does not support the earlier argument that the tactical team had things under control. It appears to me they mostly stopped on the stairs and did not take control of the landing. Windows were still being smashed and Babbitt climbed through the window long after they arrived. It looks like they were just standing there watching the events unfold and not getting involved.

        ​​​​​​​Am I missing something?

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Ronson View Post

          I was busy today and missed much of this ongoing conversation (a good conversation, by the way).

          I'd just like to add that this additional video does not support the earlier argument that the tactical team had things under control. It appears to me they mostly stopped on the stairs and did not take control of the landing. Windows were still being smashed and Babbitt climbed through the window long after they arrived. It looks like they were just standing there watching the events unfold and not getting involved.

          ​​​​​​​Am I missing something?
          Hard to explain right now, cause I'm up up to my butt in alligators on another project, but you'll see the plain-clothes guy (suit, grey tie, double-masked) pretty much directing the other officers - he appears to be the one who tells the officers who were at the door that they can leave - he appears to be in communication with the tactical officers coming up the stairs, and they don't seem to be in a panic.

          This frame is just before Babbit was shot - she's in the middle of the picture, grey tie is talking to the tactical guys who are right there at the scene.

          grey tie.jpg

          It appears they have a plan, having the uniformed officers leave and the tactical team come in. They're not just stopped on the stairway, they're coming in as the other guys are being directed out. He's leaning over and taking to (probably the team leader). These are the officers leaving be cause the tactical guys are already on the scene.

          officers leaving.jpg

          This next frame is just a second before the woman jumps up into the window, and grey tie is communicating with the tactical guy (I'm assuming is the team leader)

          briefing commander.jpg


          Unfortunately, it's at that point that the clearly UNARMED woman attempts to climb through the window and is fatally shot.
          Attached Files
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #95
            So watch the video again --- the uniform officers do not leave until the tactical guys are already there, and grey tie appears to be briefing them.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              Unfortunately, it's at that point that the clearly UNARMED woman attempts to climb through the window and is fatally shot.

              Nobody rioted when 26 unarmed white people were killed by police in 2019. Or the 23 in 2020.
              Last edited by Diogenes; 02-26-2021, 04:58 PM.
              P1) If , then I win.

              P2)

              C) I win.

              Comment


              • #97
                So, before I disappear for a bit....

                IF the shooter (plain clothes guy) had not been hiding off to the side, nervously fingering the trigger, re-alinging his grip, finger on trigger ---

                IF he had just stepped in front of the woman, away from the door, gun drawn, and yelled at her to get back, AND she still advanced, it'd be a very different story.

                You really don't see the rest of them trying to storm through -- I think she was not paying attention to what was going on behind her, and most of the protesters there seemed to realize the tactical guys were there, and already were beginning to calm down.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  We need to bookmark the liberals arguments for the use of force here for the next time we have a thread about the police killing an "unarmed" black man.
                  We should likewise "bookmark" the conservatives when they defend such incidents.



                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    We should likewise "bookmark" the conservatives when they defend such incidents.
                    What, exactly, is being defended?

                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      We should likewise "bookmark" the conservatives when they defend such incidents.
                      Lemme spell it out for you....

                      The Capitol Riots should NEVER have taken place. Period. No defense whatsoever.

                      This liberals are the ones who spent all summer defending the "mostly peaceful riots", and even gathering up bail money so the ones who were arrested could go out and riot and loot and burn again.

                      My position then was that every one of them who broke the law should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Period. No excuses.
                      Same thing with the Capitol Riots --- everybody who broke the law should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Period. No excuses.

                      In the riots this summer - any police officer who shot and killed an unarmed protester should be tried for his crime.
                      In the Capitol riot - any police officer who shot and killed an unarmed protester should be tried for his crime.

                      So, yeah, bookmark that.

                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Compare "no idea what weapon[s] she might be concealing" which means no weapons are either visible or apparent

                        Babbit was part of a mob storming of the Capitol and some members of that mob were carrying weapons. I realise that many on the alt-Right consider there to be one set of rules for them and one set of rules for everyone else and that consequently a sense of outrage is now felt among many. Regretfully those so incensed will just have to accept the fact that Babbit was part of a illegal riot, she had broken into the building along with her other rioters, she was deemed a threat by a police officer, and she was shot.

                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        That's just ignorant -- there was no immediate deadly threat - she was clearly unarmed - had he waited just a few more seconds, the officers in the hallway were managing the situation.
                        In the heat of the moment I suspect the police officer was not at leisure to calmly weigh up his choices and consider each of his potential options carefully before making a decision.

                        His job includes "protecting members and officers of Congress and their families". The Capitol was under attack, mobs of rioters were in the building, he saw a crowd on the stairs attempting smash open the doors [which were barricaded by chairs] members of that mob smashed the glass in one of the doors, a rioter climbed thorough and as she did so, he shot her.

                        As for whether or not she was armed, the officer could not be certain she was not. As she climbs in her hands are free but the officer has no way of knowing what might be concealed under the flag [or whatever it is] she has tied around her waist, or what she has in her rucksack.

                        However, it is very easy for armchair generals like you to sit at your computer and replay footage of the event over and over again, minutely examining every available viewpoint, pausing the video to scrutinise every possible position of assailants and defenders and then offer your pronouncements on what someone caught in the heat of the moment ought to have done.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          Babbit was part of a mob storming of the Capitol and some members of that mob were carrying weapons.
                          A) how many?
                          2) how do you know that?
                          3) even if that's true, the woman who was shot was clearly unarmed.

                          I realise that many on the alt-Right consider there to be one set of rules for them and one set of rules for everyone else and that consequently a sense of outrage is now felt among many. Regretfully those so incensed will just have to accept the fact that Babbit was part of a illegal riot, she had broken into the building along with her other rioters, she was deemed a threat by a police officer, and she was shot.
                          She should have been arrested, not shot.

                          Most of the drivel you're spewing has already been addressed in the thread.

                          If you actually have something to contribute, do so - otherwise, go play somewhere else.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            A) how many?
                            2) how do you know that?
                            3) even if that's true, the woman who was shot was clearly unarmed.



                            She should have been arrested, not shot.
                            As I wrote previously you are playing the armchair general.


                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            If you actually have something to contribute, do so - otherwise, go play somewhere else.
                            Is that a request that I simply agree with everything you have written? Is that what you consider constitutes having "something to contribute"?
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              As I wrote previously you are playing the armchair general.
                              Well, no, but you're playing ditzy judger.

                              One of us is actually trained law enforcement, and, while not now on active duty, still very closely associated with law enforcement.
                              I'm very PRO-law enforcement, but when I see a problem - like the knee on the guy's neck - I'm don't hold back.

                              Is that a request that I simply agree with everything you have written?
                              Nobody else has been required to agree with everything I have written, but nobody else is being a ditz.

                              Is that what you consider constitutes having "something to contribute"?
                              This type of arrogant pointless arguing for which you are rather infamous doesn't belong here.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                What, exactly, is being defended?
                                I was responding to Sparko who considers that "We need to bookmark the liberals arguments for the use of force here for the next time we have a thread about the police killing an "unarmed" black man."

                                The defence of such police actions by conservatives must also be noted.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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