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Capitol Officer Who Shot Ashli Babbit...

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  • #46
    So, new information surfaces --- there were already officers in the hallway with the protesters, standing with their backs to the door, guarding it from the protesters.

    The shooter was inside the lobby - other officers were on the other side of the door holding back the protesters, but they move aside when other officers in tactical gear arrive.
    The officer INSIDE the room shoots into the hallway, killing Babbit, and risked shooting other officers who were there managing the situation.

    Two previously unreported video clips obtained by The Washington Post shed new light on the fatal shooting by police of Trump supporter and Air Force veteran Ashli Babbitt as she and other rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol.

    Babbitt and others were attempting to breach a barricaded door inside the Capitol building on Wednesday afternoon, angrily demanding that three U.S. Capitol Police officers who were guarding the door step aside, one of the clips shows. The officers moved away as colleagues in tactical gear arrived behind the rioters, according to the clip and other video posted online.

    Roughly 35 seconds after the officers moved away, as she climbed up toward a broken section of the unguarded door, Babbitt was shot by an officer on the other side.


    The officers in the hallway WITH the protesters had things under control, and help had already arrived.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Those who did would likely be quickly arrested for manslaughter since at that point it would be hard to claim they were an immediate threat. After they had entered and kept advancing as you warned them to stop would be a different matter.
      Nope. they are already on your property and showing themselves to be a threat by trying to enter your home.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Nope. they are already on your property and showing themselves to be a threat by trying to enter your home.
        As our local Concealed Carry License instructors will tell you....

        You can even shoot somebody 'through the door' if they're tying to break in, and likely be arrested or investigated, but most likely found not guilty criminally.
        HOWEVER, you may lose your house in a civil trial.

        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          As our local Concealed Carry License instructors will tell you....

          You can even shoot somebody 'through the door' if they're tying to break in, and likely be arrested or investigated, but most likely found not guilty criminally.
          HOWEVER, you may lose your house in a civil trial.
          Yeah people usually don't break into your home to sell you encyclopedias. But I do think most laws say that if you catch someone already in your house and it is obvious that they aren't a threat (like they have both hands full carrying your tv out of the door) then you can't use deadly force. But if they drop that TV and start moving toward you, you can.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Yeah people usually don't break into your home to sell you encyclopedias. But I do think most laws say that if you catch someone already in your house and it is obvious that they aren't a threat (like they have both hands full carrying your tv out of the door) then you can't use deadly force. But if they drop that TV and start moving toward you, you can.
            I think the general rationale is that you need to be "in fear for your life or the lives of others". And you need to be able to convince a judge or jury of that if it goes to court.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #51
              So, three officers are seen standing with their backs to the door, facing the protesters.
              As the cavalry arrives (tactical officers fully armed), the officers step to the side.
              They know that help is arriving, and obviously don't want to get shot in the crossfire, should the arriving officers find it necessary to use deadly force.
              They have done their job, and are allowing the reinforcements room to work.

              Another man, wearing a red Trump hat, told the officers, “We backed you guys in the summer. When the whole country hated you, we had your back.”

              At this point, one officer guarding the door said to the others, “They’re ready to roll,” and gestured to them to come with him, the video shows. The officers stepped away from the door together and moved to an adjacent wall.


              "They're ready to roll" is probably a reference to the tactical officers coming in behind the protesters.

              With the door clear of law enforcement, some of the rioters renewed their efforts to break through. One used a helmet, and another tried with a flagpole.

              About 20 seconds after the officers stepped aside, a loud scream is heard on the footage. One man shouted three times that an officer on the other side of the door had a gun. An officer with a gun can be seen at the edge of the video’s frame. The warning was repeated by another man, but other rioters continued trying to smash through the doorway.


              There is no evidence that the officer with the gun aimed at the protesters (and where the other cops just moved to that wall) shouted anything that identified him as an officer - and he was in a business suit, not a uniform.

              Around this time, the departing officers were met by colleagues wearing helmets and armed with rifles, who had arrived from a stairwell behind Babbitt and the rioters, according to other video posted to social media. These officers began evacuating the officers who had guarded the door down the stairs.


              The situation was already being handled - defused.

              With help from someone who hoisted her up, Babbitt began to step through a portion of the door where the glass had been broken out. An officer on the other side, who was wearing a suit and a surgical mask, immediately shot Babbitt in the neck. She fell to the floor.


              Again, there were, by now, at least 6 to a dozen officers in the hallway where Babbit was, and the officer with the gun drawn and aimed into the hallway shot her in the chest.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                The officers in the hallway WITH the protesters had things under control, and help had already arrived.
                Yes, but it doesn't look like the officer on the other side of the door knew that. He knew there was no one between the rioters and the door, because they were banging on it pretty hard and smashing the glass. The shattered glass would have made it difficult to see what was going on behind the rioters, and his position off to the side wouldn't likely have given him a direct view anyway. There was so much noise that he couldn't be expected to hear the police officers on the other side of the door.

                What he did know was that someone other than a police officer was coming through the broken window, and it doesn't appear that there was anyone else besides him between the rioters and the congressmen.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by kccd View Post

                  She was part of a violent mob smashing their way into and through the Capitol in an effort to subvert the final and official electoral vote count. I don't see why she deserves sympathy.
                  Oh I do not think some here see it in quite that way. Although I wait for Q to [or some group on the alt-Right] give her the martyr's crown!

                  She deserves sympathy, in my opinion, for being so credulous, believing all that QAnon nonsense and every conspiracy theory that came her way.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    "I don't see why the cop didn't try to shoot an arm or a leg, and not killed her"

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      Oh I do not think some here see it in quite that way. Although I wait for Q to [or some group on the alt-Right] give her the martyr's crown!

                      She deserves sympathy, in my opinion, for being so credulous, believing all that QAnon nonsense and every conspiracy theory that came her way.
                      She's definitely no martyr but a darn sight closer to being one than some of those the left turned into ones, like the guy who ambushed the guy in the MAGA hat in Portland killing him and later shot by police when he pulled his gun out. Or the guy in the middle of firebombing the ICE facility who leveled his "homemade" AR-15 at the police when they arrived and was shot.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                        "I don't see why the cop didn't try to shoot an arm or a leg, and not killed her"
                        CP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think police are trained to do that sort of thing.

                        https://www.police1.com/patrol-issue...dYvNUEECtIWRI/

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                          Yes, but it doesn't look like the officer on the other side of the door knew that.
                          Which is EXACTLY why he shouldn't have shot.

                          He knew there was no one between the rioters and the door,
                          How did he know that? The thee officers had just been there - and, again - other officers and armed personnel did not shoot.

                          because they were banging on it pretty hard and smashing the glass. The shattered glass would have made it difficult to see what was going on behind the rioters, and his position off to the side wouldn't likely have given him a direct view anyway. There was so much noise that he couldn't be expected to hear the police officers on the other side of the door.
                          You can't seem to figure out that you're actually making the argument that he should NOT have shot.

                          What he did know was that someone other than a police officer was coming through the broken window, and it doesn't appear that there was anyone else besides him between the rioters and the congressmen.
                          There were a number of other officers and armed personnel on his same side of the door.

                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            Oh I do not think some here see it in quite that way. Although I wait for Q to [or some group on the alt-Right] give her the martyr's crown!

                            She deserves sympathy, in my opinion, for being so credulous, believing all that QAnon nonsense and every conspiracy theory that came her way.
                            Please take this ignorant Q stuff to some other thread.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                              "I don't see why the cop didn't try to shoot an arm or a leg, and not killed her"
                              I don't see anybody arguing that.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                She's definitely no martyr but a darn sight closer to being one than some of those the left turned into ones, like the guy who ambushed the guy in the MAGA hat in Portland killing him and later shot by police when he pulled his gun out. Or the guy in the middle of firebombing the ICE facility who leveled his "homemade" AR-15 at the police when they arrived and was shot.
                                Well of course you would think that.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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