Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Capitol Officer Who Shot Ashli Babbit...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by kccd View Post
    The fact is that most of those protests were peaceful.
    The VAST MAJORITY of those at the Capitol were peaceful - so what? Those aren't the ones in the news.

    Like the one in Lafayette Park that Trump dispersed with tear gas and projectiles so he could walk to the church and hold up a bible!
    I clearly condemned that -- see, I'm consistent!

    Some of those other protests were violent, and I agree that those people should have suffered serious consequences.
    The RW seems to think all or most of those protests were violent, which is just not true. there is lots of evidence to the contrary.
    Do you think all those shopkeepers who had their store windows smashed and looted give a flyin' flip about the "peaceful protests"?

    The unarmed protestor who was killed was in the middle of a violent act when she was killed.
    Do you have any idea how many other armed officers were in that room who did NOT panic and shoot an unarmed woman?

    As someone said, maybe you, it is easy to conceal a pistol, so the policeman could not have known at the time that she was unarmed, he could only judge by what she was doing.
    No, while it's true that it's easy to conceal a pistol, the use of deadly force requires the officer to be in fear of his life, immediate bodily harm, or the lives of others in proximity.

    You can't just shoot somebody dead and say, "gosh, MAYBE she had a gun!" Do you realize there were HUNDREDS of other cops who also faced violent protesters and did NOT shoot?

    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
      What was the violent act she was doing when she was shot? Throwing frozen water bottles or bricks or rocks at the police?
      Liberal violent protester - let's collect money to pay their bail so they can go out and do more violence.
      Conservative protester - shoot on sight.

      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by kccd View Post
        The unarmed protestor who was killed was in the middle of a violent act when she was killed. As someone said, maybe you, it is easy to conceal a pistol, so the policeman could not have known at the time that she was unarmed, he could only judge by what she was doing.
        White cop shoots unarmed black man - "but it's easy to conceal a pistol - there was no way for me to know he was unarmed!"

        Yeah, that'll fly.

        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post

          What was the violent act she was doing when she was shot? Throwing frozen water bottles or bricks or rocks at the police?
          Maybe she was firing commercial grade fireworks at them from point blank rage. Or shining green lasers into their eyes causing permanent eye damage. I know. She was barricading them inside a building trying to trap them inside so they burn alive after she set the building on fire.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Maybe she was firing commercial grade fireworks at them from point blank rage. Or shining green lasers into their eyes causing permanent eye damage. I know. She was barricading them inside a building trying to trap them inside so they burn alive after she set the building on fire.
            THAT'S what it was! How silly of me!


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
              Unless the whole thing was staged (like that crazy video guy claims) then the details are pretty clear in the video. She was at the front of a mob and was the first to start climbing in through a broken-out window.

              How does a solo cop stop a mob from overwhelming him? You drop the leader in his (her) tracks. No one else came through that window after that.
              There were more cops in the room, but the concept is the same. How many rioters do you let come through before you start shooting? Suppose you just let them come through, and then, after they outnumber the armed officers two to one, they all pull out guns?

              The officers had the lawmakers they were supposed to protect at their backs, and a barricaded door in front of them. It was their last stand, and shooting the first person to come through the broken window seems like the appropriate response.

              FWIW, I do feel some sympathy for Ashli Babbitt. She might not have realized how serious the situation was for the cops, and might have been taken completely by surprise when she got shot. But I can feel sorry for someone and still consider their shooting justified.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                There were more cops in the room, but the concept is the same.
                There may have been. If so, they were hiding out of view.

                How many rioters do you let come through before you start shooting? Suppose you just let them come through, and then, after they outnumber the armed officers two to one, they all pull out guns?
                The cop waited long enough. He had his gun pointed right at that window, and Babbit saw the gun (in the video she continually looks in that direction before going through the window). He waited until the threat entered the building, and then he fired.

                The officers had the lawmakers they were supposed to protect at their backs, and a barricaded door in front of them. It was their last stand, and shooting the first person to come through the broken window seems like the appropriate response.
                Agreed.

                FWIW, I do feel some sympathy for Ashli Babbitt. She might not have realized how serious the situation was for the cops, and might have been taken completely by surprise when she got shot. But I can feel sorry for someone and still consider their shooting justified.
                I don't. People take risks in life; the greater the risks - the greater the consequences. She took a huge risk and lost. If that bullet missed her and went out a second window and killed someone standing on the sidewalk outside, then I would feel sympathy.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                  There were more cops in the room, but the concept is the same. How many rioters do you let come through before you start shooting? Suppose you just let them come through, and then, after they outnumber the armed officers two to one, they all pull out guns?

                  The officers had the lawmakers they were supposed to protect at their backs, and a barricaded door in front of them. It was their last stand, and shooting the first person to come through the broken window seems like the appropriate response.

                  FWIW, I do feel some sympathy for Ashli Babbitt. She might not have realized how serious the situation was for the cops, and might have been taken completely by surprise when she got shot. But I can feel sorry for someone and still consider their shooting justified.
                  Do you know how many cops were in the room, and how well they were armed?
                  Do you know how many cops were coming in behind the protesters to clear the hallway?
                  Do you know why no other cops in the entire Capitol shot and killed people?

                  When you're a cop in that situation, you don't panic and shoot - shooting is an absolute last resort.


                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Do you know how many cops were in the room, and how well they were armed?
                    Do you know how many cops were coming in behind the protesters to clear the hallway?
                    Do you know why no other cops in the entire Capitol shot and killed people?

                    When you're a cop in that situation, you don't panic and shoot - shooting is an absolute last resort.
                    It didn't look like panic to me. It appears well considered and appropriate.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                      It didn't look like panic to me. It appears well considered and appropriate.
                      He's the only guy in that room that we can see with his finger on the trigger even before they breached. Other law enforcement personnel who had a lot more information than you have question his judgment. If he had been in a small room all by himself, it would be a whole lot easier to defend.



                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                        There may have been. If so, they were hiding out of view.
                        I take it back. He might have been the only one at that exact place (the Speaker's Lobby). There were more in the House Chamber.

                        The cop waited long enough. He had his gun pointed right at that window, and Babbit saw the gun (in the video she continually looks in that direction before going through the window). He waited until the threat entered the building, and then he fired.
                        I just had a fresh look at the video. There is a clear warning about the gun. She probably just didn't think the guy would shoot.

                        I don't. People take risks in life; the greater the risks - the greater the consequences. She took a huge risk and lost. If that bullet missed her and went out a second window and killed someone standing on the sidewalk outside, then I would feel sympathy.
                        She probably underestimated the risk because none of the officers up to that point showed any inclination to use deadly force.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          He's the only guy in that room that we can see with his finger on the trigger even before they breached. Other law enforcement personnel who had a lot more information than you have question his judgment. If he had been in a small room all by himself, it would be a whole lot easier to defend.
                          Are you sure the black guy in the House Chamber shown with his finger on the trigger was the same black guy in the Speaker's Lobby who shot Ashli Babbitt?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            He's the only guy in that room that we can see with his finger on the trigger even before they breached. Other law enforcement personnel who had a lot more information than you have question his judgment. If he had been in a small room all by himself, it would be a whole lot easier to defend.
                            From your OP article

                            Drawing on interviews with informed sources and available documents


                            That's about the same that the NYT usually offers, so I'm not going to accept anything in the article as hard facts. Until something is officially released, I have to go by what I witnessed in the video. The guy was alone, he waited a long time before he fired, Babbit looked in his direction more than once and likely saw him, and his response was appropriate with a mob starting to penetrate the inner offices.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                              Are you sure the black guy in the House Chamber shown with his finger on the trigger was the same black guy in the Speaker's Lobby who shot Ashli Babbitt?
                              There are a number of reasons to believe he was.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                                From your OP article

                                Drawing on interviews with informed sources and available documents


                                That's about the same that the NYT usually offers, so I'm not going to accept anything in the article as hard facts. Until something is officially released, I have to go by what I witnessed in the video. The guy was alone,
                                OK, there's a problem right there, because he was NOT alone - where did you get that idea? There were others in the room with guns drawn in a SAFE MANNER - this officer is the ONLY one who had his finger on the trigger even before she breachedl.

                                he waited a long time before he fired,
                                All the other officers and armed persons in the room waited longer.

                                Babbit looked in his direction more than once and likely saw him,
                                He was not in uniform - so she saw a black man with a gun?

                                and his response was appropriate with a mob starting to penetrate the inner offices.
                                There's some world class conclusion-jumping there, friend.

                                babbits shooter.jpg
                                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Ronson, Today, 08:25 AM
                                20 responses
                                79 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post seanD
                                by seanD
                                 
                                Started by seanD, Yesterday, 03:48 PM
                                22 responses
                                150 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post seanD
                                by seanD
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, Yesterday, 01:28 PM
                                10 responses
                                80 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 12:10 PM
                                3 responses
                                39 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by Roy, 04-12-2021, 01:13 PM
                                105 responses
                                577 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Working...
                                X