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Biden signs memorandum reversing Trump abortion access restrictions

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

    I don't believe that abortion is a "good thing" per se, I view it more as a consequence of modernity. The use of contraceptives (I would include Plan B here) and condoms is better than an abortion. Abstinence is even better. My "pro-choice" position is based on 1) I don't believe the ZEF is a person during the 1st Trimester so I view it as an issue regarding bodily rights and 2) if the mother's life becomes endangered due to the pregnancy, she has the right to self-preservation. I would have an issue of government funding non-profits that perform abortions. I don't have an issue with the government funding non-profits that, for example, distribute contraceptives and condoms while performing health screenings that also informs an individual that abortion is a legal option in their country.

    It sure is a crappy consequence for the baby. Every time. Millions of them.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by mossrose View Post


      It sure is a crappy consequence for the baby. Every time. Millions of them.
      Which is why I support comprehensive sex education and ease of access to contraceptives and condoms. Less unwanted pregnancies would entail less abortions.
      P1) If , then I win.

      P2)

      C) I win.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

        Which is why I support comprehensive sex education and ease of access to contraceptives and condoms. Less unwanted pregnancies would entail less abortions.
        Nothing will change the amount of "unwanted" pregnancies because the hearts of mankind is bent on pursuing their own pleasure above all else. It is a selfish, prideful world in which we live, andbonly a heart changed by salvation from the Lord will fix it.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post

          Nothing will change the amount of "unwanted" pregnancies because the hearts of mankind is bent on pursuing their own pleasure above all else.
          Birth-control and condoms allow mankind to pursue hedonistic pleasure while minimising the risk of pregnancy, STDs, etc.

          It is a selfish, prideful world in which we live, and only a heart changed by salvation from the Lord will fix it.
          Agreed, as, from a public policy standpoint, minimising associated risks is the most that can be done.
          P1) If , then I win.

          P2)

          C) I win.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

            Birth-control and condoms allow mankind to pursue hedonistic pleasure while minimising the risk of pregnancy, STDs, etc.
            Birth control and condoms have been encouraged since I was in high school, and that was a very long time ago. But things have only gotten worse with the legalization of abortion. So I don't think it's a valuable solution to push it more. Nobody is paying attention.



            Agreed, as, from a public policy standpoint, minimising associated risks is the most that can be done.
            Abstinence is certainly the best way to minimize risks, but that's not going to happen in the culture in which we live.



            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              This shows why we need actual legislation passed to effect lasting change. Executive orders come and go with whoever is in office. Without legislation, many things will continue to flip flop every 4 years. But congress doesn't seem to be interested in legislating any more. All they do is call names and fight amongst themselves. And bloviate at news conferences and social media.
              When the president does it by decree it takes pressure/responsibility off Congress since their is nothing they can be held accountable for. And often the E.O. doesn't last until the end of that president's Administration since the court ends up striking down a bunch of them

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                Birth control and condoms have been encouraged since I was in high school, and that was a very long time ago. But things have only gotten worse with the legalization of abortion. So I don't think it's a valuable solution to push it more. Nobody is paying attention.


                Abstinence is certainly the best way to minimize risks, but that's not going to happen in the culture in which we live.
                Resisting the obvious jokes about the nature of condoms back when you were in HS...

                I knew a young woman who acted as a youth pastor at her church who told me that she had already had several (more than two IIRC four but not positive) abortions rationalizing that having an abortion was just one sin whereas continually using birth control was an entire series of sins.

                One of the very few times I was utterly speechless even though there were so many things I coulda said.

                Our paths crossed briefly a decade or so later and she was married with a baby.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  When the president does it by decree it takes pressure/responsibility off Congress since their is nothing they can be held accountable for. And often the E.O. doesn't last until the end of that president's Administration since the court ends up striking down a bunch of them
                  "there"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    "there"
                    There Their They're.jpg

                    I used to never have a problem with that but after doing it deliberately on multiple occasions to bait a certain prodder of bovines it seems that I now tend to frequently screw them up

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                      Birth control and condoms have been encouraged since I was in high school, and that was a very long time ago. But things have only gotten worse with the legalization of abortion. So I don't think it's a valuable solution to push it more. Nobody is paying attention.

                      Overall, the per 1,000 rate of abortions for women 16-44, annual number of abortions are in steady decline, and abortion ratio of pregnancies are in steady decline.



                      Abstinence is certainly the best way to minimize risks,

                      Agreed, but the government can't mandate that as a matter of public policy. Public policy has to account for liberty. Informing individuals of the efficacy of abstinence would be part of comprehensive sex education.



                      but that's not going to happen in the culture in which we live.

                      Agreed. We live in a culture that encourages hedonism rather than virtue.

                      P1) If , then I win.

                      P2)

                      C) I win.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Resisting the obvious jokes about the nature of condoms back when you were in HS... .
                        Like when they are pinned to a bulletin board in the centre of the package?

                        P1) If , then I win.

                        P2)

                        C) I win.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Resisting the obvious jokes about the nature of condoms back when you were in HS...

                          I knew a young woman who acted as a youth pastor at her church who told me that she had already had several (more than two IIRC four but not positive) abortions rationalizing that having an abortion was just one sin whereas continually using birth control was an entire series of sins.

                          One of the very few times I was utterly speechless even though there were so many things I coulda said.

                          Our paths crossed briefly a decade or so later and she was married with a baby.
                          Did she come out of a Catholic background, where birth control is a no-no? I have never heard a Protestant pastor proclaim that birth control is sinful. But my experience is limited to just a couple of denominations, so I could be naive.

                          Having said that, I do believe that IUD's are abortion-causing because of the way they work. So I would call using those constantly is sinful.

                          Our current pastor was asked about birth control once, especially tubal ligation or vasectomy, and he said that God gives a woman choice every month, because we are not always in oestrus, and hence are able, because of our cycles, to determine, at least generally, when we are able to conceive, and can avoid becoming pregnant during that time, so there is no problem with taking care of that issue on a permanent basis if you don't want children or any more children. He included condoms and hormone-changing birth control pills, as well as abstinence, in his answer.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                            Like when they are pinned to a bulletin board in the centre of the package?
                            He's referring to the teasing I get around here for having been around since before time began.


                            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                              Did she come out of a Catholic background, where birth control is a no-no? I have never heard a Protestant pastor proclaim that birth control is sinful. But my experience is limited to just a couple of denominations, so I could be naive.

                              Having said that, I do believe that IUD's are abortion-causing because of the way they work. So I would call using those constantly is sinful.

                              Our current pastor was asked about birth control once, especially tubal ligation or vasectomy, and he said that God gives a woman choice every month, because we are not always in oestrus, and hence are able, because of our cycles, to determine, at least generally, when we are able to conceive, and can avoid becoming pregnant during that time, so there is no problem with taking care of that issue on a permanent basis if you don't want children or any more children. He included condoms and hormone-changing birth control pills, as well as abstinence, in his answer.
                              I pretty much assumed that she was a Catholic of some type but never asked. But FWIU they usually wouldn't refer to themselves as a "youth pastor" or "youth minister" and I'm almost certain she wasn't ordained.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                I pretty much assumed that she was a Catholic of some type but never asked. But FWIU they usually wouldn't refer to themselves as a "youth pastor" or "youth minister" and I'm almost certain she wasn't ordained.
                                I suppose a teacher of children might call themselves a minister or pastor in the RCC, but I'm not sure.


                                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                                Comment

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