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Reflect On Your Whiteness...

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Would I? Would I really? My wife is born to the Ute tribe, and quite regularly gets mistake correctly identified as 'Asian'
    (of various types). I'm of Indian descent, and regularly get mistaken correctly identified as 'african american/black'.

    Race simply isn't a biologically valid concept.
    For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

    I fixed it for you. White people, especially white liberals, are keen at distinguishing various races.

    Last edited by Diogenes; 02-20-2021, 03:22 PM.
    P1) If , then I win.

    P2)

    C) I win.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      Which is one of the main reasons we chose to adopt a 'rescue dog' who was in good health and no pedigree.
      Rescue dog? Like you ran in and save him from a burning building?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by seer View Post

        Rescue dog? Like you ran in and save him from a burning building?
        No, but the young man handling the adoption said, "I'm so glad you got him - tomorrow would have been his 'bad day'" - meaning "put down".

        so, yeah, we rescued him from death.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          Would I? Would I really? My wife is born to the Ute tribe, and quite regularly gets mistaken as 'Asian'
          (of various types). I'm of Indian descent, and regularly get mistaken as 'african american/black'.

          Race simply isn't a biologically valid concept.
          A late friend of mine was born in Morocco being half French half Berber. He had bright blue eyes which he inherited from his mother's side (Berber). The Berbers (who the Romans called "Libyans") have inhabited northern (especially northwestern) Africa for 10,000 years. Interestingly, you can find them ranging from being as black as the darkest skinned sub-Saharan African through the various hues of brown you see among Arabs and many Middle Easterners to an olive complexion common in many Europeans found along the Mediterranean.

          It would be interesting to see which so-called race all of them, who are all regarded as a distinct ethnic group, would get shoe-horned into.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            To bad these days are gone!




            It appears CocaCola has hopped on the bandwagon:
            https://thefederalist.com/2021/02/20...be-less-white/
            Whistleblower: Coca-Cola Uses Antiracist Training That Tells Employees ‘Try To Be Less White’

            Coca-Cola has used a training video by antiracist activist Robin DiAngelo that tells employees to “try to be less white,” according to “unwoke activist” Karlyn Borysenko based on information from what she says is a company whistleblower. Borysenko, who is also a psychologist, YouTuber, and creator of Zen Workplace, put a video of the training online. Borysenko often speaks out against critical race theory and corporate race training.

            https://twitter.com/DrKarlynB/status...-less-white%2F

            The 49-minute training video by DiAngelo, author of the book “White Fragility,” is titled “Confronting Racism.” Right away the course establishes that all white people are born racist. “Nothing exempts any white person from the forces of racism,” says DiAngelo. “When you accept the reality of your socialization, you can begin to examine how you’ve been shaped by it.”

            “In the U.S. and other Western nations, white people are socialized to feel that they are inherently superior because they are white,” she continues. “Research shows that by age 3 to 4, children understand that it is better to be white.”

            Employees are told in the “what you can do” section that to “be less white” one can:

            Be less oppressive

            Be less arrogant

            Be less certain

            Be less defensive

            Be less arrogant

            Be more humble

            Listen

            Believe

            Break with apathy

            Break with white solidarity
            DiAngelo’s list thus implies that white people are, by their very skin color, oppressive, defensive, arrogant, apathetic, and so forth.

            The training includes a “racial resentment” section. “Any moment of black advancement is met with a backlash of white rage and resentment,” DiAngelo claims. “I think we’re in a current moment of that after eight years of Obama.” DiAngelo goes on to say that white people resent affirmative action, which she describes as “a toothless program that we’ve practically dismantled.”

            DiAngelo says when white people say they aren’t racist, she doesn’t buy it. When DiAngelo hears white people say, “I was taught to treat everyone the same,” she said she thinks to herself, “this person doesn’t understand basic socialization. This person doesn’t understand culture. This person is not self-aware.”

            Being nice to black people is not enough, according to DiAngelo. “Niceness is not courageous. Niceness is not anti-racism.” She informs listeners that if they are merely nice, then they are advancing a racist system that increases “racial disparities.”

            The course description for the training reads:
            In this course, Robin DiAngelo, the best-selling author of White Fragility, gives you the vocabulary and practices you need to start confronting racism and unconscious bias at the individual level and throughout your organization. There’s no magic recipe for building an inclusive workplace. It’s a process that needs to involve people of color, and that needs to go on for as long as your company is in business. But with these tools at your disposal, you’ll be well on your way.
            The entire training is available on “LinkedIn Learning,” which Borysenko says Coca-Cola is using “for their internal platform.”

            DiAngelo’s course could open Coca-Cola to a slew of lawsuits by employees who suspect they were denied promotions, bonuses, and other opportunities due to their skin color. They can use the training as direct evidence of racial discrimination, according to lawyers.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post

              Sorry - I thought the term's meaning would be obvious. By closeted overt racism i mean the (in my experience) not insignificant number of white people who keep their racism to themselves knowing it is frowned upon officially. But who when given a 'safe' opportunity to act on it do so. Those people that on believing you trustworthy will call you aside and tell you what they really think about a situation involving a black person in a crime, or a black family making an offer on a house down the street, or the black teenager tailgating them, etc etc. Thise people that faced with a resume from a black person of equal or slightly better qualifications will always choose the white person. Those that seeing a black person or family in need will continue on their way, but will stop and help if said person or family is white.

              In other words - they hold overtly racist views, but only express them in private settings where they believe thay will not be held accountable for them.

              This translates into lower pay, lost job opportunities or housing availability, indifference to needs or sometimes not so quiet hostility in public settings.
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 02-20-2021, 05:32 PM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                Sorry - I thought the term's meaning would be obvious. By closeted overt racism i mean the (in my experience) not insignificant number of white people who keep their racism to themselves knowing it is frowned upon officially. But who when given a 'safe' opportunity to act on it do so. Those people that on believing you trustworthy will call you aside and tell you what they really think about a situation involving a black person in a crime, or a black family making an offer on a house down the street, or the black teenager tailgating them, etc etc. Thise people that faced with a resume from a black person of equal or slightly better qualifications will always choose the white person. Those that seeing a black person or family in need will continue on their way, but will stop and help if said person or family is white.

                In other words - they hold overtly racist views, but only express them in private settings where they believe thay will not be held accountable for them.

                This translates into lower pay, lost job opportunities or housing availability, indifference to needs or sometimes not so quiet hostility in public settings.
                OK.

                Not to nitpick, but I think "closeted racism" would suffice above, since "overt" means visible and unhidden. It doesn't go well with "closeted."

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                  OK.

                  Not to nitpick, but I think "closeted racism" would suffice above, since "overt" means visible and unhidden. It doesn't go well with "closeted."
                  He's aiming for hidden, conscious racism, where the person knows they are racist, but hides it. This is in contrast to a person who thinks they aren't racist, while still doing racist stuff (like applying stereotypes, unequal enforcement of rules, etc.), or someone who has hidden bias.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                    He's aiming for hidden, conscious racism, where the person knows they are racist, but hides it. This is in contrast to a person who thinks they aren't racist, while still doing racist stuff (like applying stereotypes, unequal enforcement of rules, etc.), or someone who has hidden bias.
                    Like saying things such as "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black," or the Latin community has diversity, unlike blacks, things of that nature. Although, perhaps a bit different to your description, I don't think Biden actually believes he's not racist, he's just trying to act like he isn't, and failing miserably.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                      He's aiming for hidden, conscious racism, where the person knows they are racist, but hides it. This is in contrast to a person who thinks they aren't racist, while still doing racist stuff (like applying stereotypes, unequal enforcement of rules, etc.), or someone who has hidden bias.
                      You mean like declaring that blacks don't have any real diversity in their views -- that they all think alike? Or that a lot of them can't figure out how to go online or use a computer? Or maybe that a running across an "articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking" black person is so rare that it's "storybook, man"?

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                        OK.

                        Not to nitpick, but I think "closeted racism" would suffice above, since "overt" means visible and unhidden. It doesn't go well with "closeted."
                        Yeah, I get why it might have been taken is self contradictory. I was trying to capture the difference between racism that is part of a culture though not necessarily conscious on the part of individuals, and racism that is conscious but simply willfully hidden from public view.

                        Live and learn
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                          He's aiming for hidden, conscious racism, where the person knows they are racist, but hides it. This is in contrast to a person who thinks they aren't racist, while still doing racist stuff (like applying stereotypes, unequal enforcement of rules, etc.), or someone who has hidden bias.
                          Yep, that sums it up.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            You mean like declaring that blacks don't have any real diversity in their views -- that they all think alike? Or that a lot of them can't figure out how to go online or use a computer? Or maybe that a running across an "articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking" black person is so rare that it's "storybook, man"?
                            You'll have to ask ox, I was just trying to help clarify his statement

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                              A couple of questions.

                              1) starting from a state where the consequences of overt racism are significant financial and educational differences, not just in the current population but in the facilities and institutions training the next, what mechanism do you propose to eliminate those disparities that does not involve some application of a temporary compensatory bias? ( keep in mind the asymptotic nature of incremental improvement )

                              2) given the entrenched nature of people still holding on to a closeted overt racism, what mechanism do you propose to prevent that ostensibly hidden bias from 'leaking out' and countermanding 1 above?

                              To rogue specifically, but nor exclusively:

                              Other than the confusion over the term closeted overt racism, which has been cleared i think, do you have any thoughts about what an answer might be to these two questions?
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                To rogue specifically, but nor exclusively:

                                Other than the confusion over the term closeted overt racism, which has been cleared i think, do you have any thoughts about what an answer might be to these two questions?
                                Maybe we should start by looking at some other groups, like people from Asia, who have faced discrimination and prejudice for guidance. Many of them have arrived here with little more than what they could carry and yet they, or at the least, their children, as a whole, are thriving. Owning their own businesses, getting top grades in school and using that to build on etc. Doing so well that now you actually have universities seeking to limit their numbers so that more from other minorities can attend.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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