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Reflect On Your Whiteness...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Even back in Darwin's time it was noticed that there are more differences within a race than between them. Genetic studies show that humans are remarkably homogeneous genetically, so all humans are only one biological race
    Same could be said of sex. One chromosome difference?

    The more we interbreed between peoples from around the world, the fewer differences there will be between races, but the fact that you can look at a white person and a black person and an asian person and see that there are physical differences makes it pretty obvious there are biological differences between races, even if some of those traits can show up in another race. The total grouping of various traits is what defines a race. Various facial features can appear in any race for example but are far more common in a particular race, like blue eyes and blonde hair in white people, or broad noses and lips in black people.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      Same could be said of sex. One chromosome difference?

      The more we interbreed between peoples from around the world, the fewer differences there will be between races, but the fact that you can look at a white person and a black person and an asian person and see that there are physical differences makes it pretty obvious there are biological differences between races, even if some of those traits can show up in another race. The total grouping of various traits is what defines a race. Various facial features can appear in any race for example but are far more common in a particular race, like blue eyes and blonde hair in white people, or broad noses and lips in black people.
      The differences are largely cosmetic. There is a reason we call it the human race and not the human races.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        The differences are largely cosmetic. There is a reason we call it the human race and not the human races.
        Of course they are cosmetic. for the most part. certain races are more susceptible to various diseases though so it goes deeper in some cases. Just because they are cosmetic (or visual) doesn't mean that there are not racial groups in human beings. We are talking races here, not breeds or species.


        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          Of course they are cosmetic. for the most part. certain races are more susceptible to various diseases though so it goes deeper in some cases. Just because they are cosmetic (or visual) doesn't mean that there are not racial groups in human beings. We are talking races here, not breeds or species.
          In the National Geographic's There's No Scientific Basis for Race - It's a Made-Up Label they point out, among other things, that there is greater genetic diversity among different communities within Africa than there is among the billions of humans living on every other continent. Any group differences between human populations are essentially trivial. This has been understood since Darwin who was perhaps the first point out that there are more differences within a race than between them at a time when many scientists were dividing us into a dozen or even over 20 distinct races[1]. In his analysis of it he got in the habit of referring to the "so-called races."

          Craig Venter, a pioneer of DNA sequencing (known for leading the first draft sequence of the human genome and assembled the first team to transfect a cell with a synthetic chromosome), has observed, "The concept of race has no genetic or scientific basis." Science today has revealed that the visible differences between peoples are effectively accidents of history reflecting how our ancestors dealt with sun exposure, and not much else. Effectively speaking, "race" is a short hand way of saying "looks different." It isn't like there are inherent behavioral differences between the "so-called races."

          And as the biological anthropologist and former president of the American Anthropological Association (AAA), Alan H. Goodman, explains:

          To understand why the idea of race is a biological myth requires a major paradigm shift - an absolutely paradigm shift, a shift in perspective. And for me, it's like seeing what it must have been like to understand that the world isn't flat. The world looks flat to our eyes. And perhaps I can invite you to a mountaintop or to a plain, and you can look out the window at the horizon, and see, "Oh, what I thought was flat I can see a curve in now." And that race is not based on biology, but race is rather an idea that we ascribe to biology.

          ...

          Scientists have actually been saying for quite a while that race, as biology, doesn't exist - that there's no biological basis for race. And that is in the facts of biology, the facts of non-concordance, the facts of continuous variation, the recentness of our evolution, the way that we all commingle and come together, how genes flow, and perhaps especially in the fact that most variation occurs within race versus between races or among races, suggesting that there's no generalizability to race. There is no center there; there is no there there in the center. It's fluid.


          To reject this is to reject basic biology in a similar way that claiming that people can decide what sex they are rejects basic biology. Race has far more to do with social, cultural and even political concepts than it does with biology.

          Source: Race: a Biological or Social Concept


          Abstract

          Race was once thought to be a real biological concept when anthropologists used study of the human skull as a way to justify racial differences and social inequality. Scientists no longer believe there is a biological basis to distinguish racial groups, rather, race is a social, cultural, and/or political construct wherein racial segregation has real consequences on health and health disparities. The biological basis of differential prevalence of disease susceptibility or resistance is due to genetic variations that exist in various racial and ethnic groups. Thus, race as a social concept can be used to categorize populations or groups based on disease susceptibility or resistance, and this offers promise for personalized/precision medicine as it applies to human health.


          Source

          © Copyright Original Source



          This is also the view echoed by anthropologists today (it was largely the work of early anthropologists that helped to shape our popular concept of "race") as seen "Anthropologists' views on race, ancestry, and genetics" published in American Journal of Physical Anthropology which examined the prevailing views on race, ancestry, and genetics and found that it is widely accepted that "there are no human biological races and recognition that race exists as lived social experiences."


          Finally, from the American Academy of Physician Assistants' (AAPA) Statement on Race and Racism (although it tends to get pretty PC and preachy):

          Race does not provide an accurate representation of human biological variation. It was never accurate in the past, and it remains inaccurate when referencing contemporary human populations. Humans are not divided biologically into distinct continental types or racial genetic clusters.



          So if you want to use race as a way of grouping people based on visual traits such as skin color, or type of hair and the like, fine. Humans love to put things in groups. But understand it is an invalid term biologically.








          1. It started with Samuel Morton, who was largely influenced by his polygenist views, posited five races but quickly that quickly grew and expanded.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #20
            I can show you a selection of pictures and you would be able to tell me what race each person most likely belongs to with a high degree of certainty. So to deny that is biological is nonsense. Biology/genetics is what creates the differences we use to make racial distinctions. Nobody is claiming it is a huge genetic diversity, but very small genetic differences can make a large real world difference. I have read that we have like 90% genetic similarity with a banana. So having 99.9999% similarity with other races doesn't mean that biological differences don't exist.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              The differences are largely cosmetic. There is a reason we call it the human race and not the human races.
              Yeah, but it's the cosmetic differences that cause all the problems.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                I can show you a selection of pictures and you would be able to tell me what race each person most likely belongs to with a high degree of certainty. So to deny that is biological is nonsense. Biology/genetics is what creates the differences we use to make racial distinctions. Nobody is claiming it is a huge genetic diversity, but very small genetic differences can make a large real world difference. I have read that we have like 90% genetic similarity with a banana. So having 99.9999% similarity with other races doesn't mean that biological differences don't exist.
                Interesting considering how back in the days of Jim Crow how many blacks were able to "pass" and less known, how many Southern Europeans were accused of being black.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Interesting considering how back in the days of Jim Crow how many blacks were able to "pass" and less known, how many Southern Europeans were accused of being black.
                  You are using exceptions to explain away the rule. I already said that there will be exceptions and almost every characteristic of one race can appear in another. But it is the general grouping of these characteristics of peoples who originate in various geographic locations that we call a race. People with generally straighter hair, lighter skin, narrow lips and narrow noses, with a wide range of eye and hair colors, who originated from europe are what we call "white" - although any of those characteristics could appear in members of other races, they would be more aberrant or due to breeding with other races.

                  Also, most of the blacks who could pass for white was due to interbreeding with whites. Which happened quite a lot. In the future, I think racial differences will become less and less as people continue to interbreed. The reason races came to be in the first place was because of isolated populations in various areas. Today, we are a global society and the populations are mixing more, diluting any racial characteristics.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    You are using exceptions to explain away the rule. I already said that there will be exceptions and almost every characteristic of one race can appear in another. But it is the general grouping of these characteristics of peoples who originate in various geographic locations that we call a race. People with generally straighter hair, lighter skin, narrow lips and narrow noses, with a wide range of eye and hair colors, who originated from europe are what we call "white" - although any of those characteristics could appear in members of other races, they would be more aberrant or due to breeding with other races.

                    Also, most of the blacks who could pass for white was due to interbreeding with whites. Which happened quite a lot. In the future, I think racial differences will become less and less as people continue to interbreed. The reason races came to be in the first place was because of isolated populations in various areas. Today, we are a global society and the populations are mixing more, diluting any racial characteristics.
                    Sparko, I'm not going to keep arguing this with you. The fact is that race is not a biologically valid concept. You'll agree with basic biology when it comes to whether or not someone can declare what sex they are but say that basic biology has it all wrong when it comes to race.

                    You can have the last word.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Regarding "race," I think it's just a matter of semantics. All dog breeds are "dogs" but the breeds can vary in every regard imaginable, and that also includes tendenices in temperment and intelligence.

                      Just is.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                        Regarding "race," I think it's just a matter of semantics. All dog breeds are "dogs" but the breeds can vary in every regard imaginable, and that also includes tendenices in temperment and intelligence.

                        Just is.
                        Dogs have been bred to the point that various breeds have entirely different behavioral patterns. Nothing even comes close to that with humans.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Dogs have been bred to the point that various breeds have entirely different behavioral patterns. Nothing even comes close to that with humans.
                          Dog breeding has sped up a process that occurs normally, though. Like, the differences in wild felines are quite varied but there was no breeding involved. Most are loners but some are social. Some are small (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-footed_cat) and some are huge.

                          I can't find it now, but there was a program I watched where a trainer of wild cats said tigers were the most difficult to train and still the most dangerous afterwards. The trainer said he rarely had trouble training lions from cubs, but he estimated that 1-in-10 tigers were still potential maneaters even after being in human company all their lives.

                          ETA: I think there is a nervousness whenever discussing differences between ethnic groups, attributing nearly every difference to culture. Maybe. But it is such a taboo subject to broach that I doubt i t was ever seriously studied.
                          Last edited by Ronson; 02-19-2021, 08:12 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                            Dog breeding has sped up a process that occurs normally, though. Like, the differences in wild felines are quite varied but there was no breeding involved. Most are loners but some are social. Some are small (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-footed_cat) and some are huge.

                            I can't find it now, but there was a program I watched where a trainer of wild cats said tigers were the most difficult to train and still the most dangerous afterwards. The trainer said he rarely had trouble training lions from cubs, but he estimated that 1-in-10 tigers were still potential maneaters even after being in human company all their lives.

                            ETA: I think there is a nervousness whenever discussing differences between ethnic groups, attributing nearly every difference to culture. Maybe. But it is such a taboo subject to broach that I doubt i t was ever seriously studied.
                            Even sped up we're talking tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years and there isn't anything even remotely close in humans to what we see in dogs. Not even remotely. There is one human race not a bunch of human races.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              To bad these days are gone!




                              While I agree this is divisive and racist rhetoric, so is the response to it seen in this thread.

                              There are much better ways to deal with racism and its consequences than just making everyone on all sides of the debate angrier.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                                While I agree this is divisive and racist rhetoric, so is the response to it seen in this thread.

                                There are much better ways to deal with racism and its consequences than just making everyone on all sides of the debate angrier.
                                Which is...

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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