Originally posted by rogue06
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Earth warmed in 2020 because of..... cleaner air?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Yeah, you do that on purpose. I bet you memorize their anniversaries and birthdays, too, so you can make us iggernant husbands REALLY look bad.P1) If , then I win.
P2)
C) I win.
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Originally posted by Diogenes View PostIf you have an iPhone, you can put stuff like that on the calendar as reoccurring annually and indefinitely. if you're smart, you'll make one about month ahead.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Yeah, you do that on purpose. I bet you memorize their anniversaries and birthdays, too, so you can make us iggernant husbands REALLY look bad.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Gondwanaland View PostTheres literally no end and no limit to what the current cause du jour of "global warming" will be. Now, in 2020, apparently the cause is reduced soot and other air pollution particles in the air.
http://www.wjtv.com/news/earth-heats...r-study-finds/
The premise of this thread is not unlike the premise of those creationists in the class I was attending. And one's reaction to this study could, in fact, be a good measure of just how complete one's understanding of the physics and science of Global warming is.
It is a well known fact that particulates in the air can have different short term effects on warming. High altitude fine grained particulates do in fact produce cooling. This has been known for quite some time now. When Pinatubo erupted, we had cooling. When Tambura erupted in 1815, we had 'the year without a summer'. The science related to the concept "Nuclear Winter' is based on large amount of fine particles launched into the Stratosphere by the detonations, cooling the earth significantly over a period of years.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180817093800.htm
https://www.irceline.be/en/documentation/faq/what-is-the-influence-of-particulate-matter-on-the-climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclea...nuclear%20war.
Other causes of cooling include higher albedo related to increased cloud cover or increased snowfall or polar ice. Likewise decreases in ice cover, or a darkening of the ice, can lead to less cooling (resulting in warming relative to what would be seen with whiter more reflective ice or more cloud cover).
Some lower altitude particulates, like soot, can actually induce warming by darking ice in glaciers.
There are also the primary issues of a "Forcing" - something that directly causes warming and is a primary cause, and "Feedback" - something that affects warming that is induced by/a consequence of warming. "Feedbacks" can be either cooling or forcing. For example, warming in the arctic releases trapped methane in the permafrost, which is a green house gas, and thus can amplify warming induced by a "Forcing". A warming atmosphere's increased capacity to hold water vapor - also a greenhouse gas - by potentially increasing cloud cover can have both cooling and warming consequences and the jury is out as to which is the dominant long term effect.
Right now, CO2 is a "Forcing". More of it is being injected into the atmosphere than can be removed. The Earth does have carbon sinks built in, but they take time to work, and they have a limited capacity. So once introduced, CO2 tends to hang around a while, and right now human beings are putting so much of it into the atmosphere that its percentage of the atmospheric gasses is monotonically increasing
https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/
Getting rid of that CO2 takes a good deal of time (and has the added consequence of increasing the carbonic acid in our oceans, affecting wildlife there)
However, humankind's contributions to climate change also include particulates that have a cooling effect. So while the net effect is warming, it is less warming that it would be if we were not also putting extra cooling particulates in the atmosphere as well (unfortunately, these particulates can also negatively affect health)
However, those particulates have a much shorter lifecylce in the atmosphere than CO2. Stop putting the particulates in the air and they settle out quickly and their cooling effect is lost. But the CO2 will be around for decades, centuries even if we stopped today. So with the reduced travel due to covid-19, some of the cooling particulates settled out of the atmosphere. And that let the CO2's warming effect go a little less unchecked, which results in increased warming.
The article is then only 'unbelievable' to those unaware of what the actual science is. The only reason to suspect some sort of conspiratorial nature to it, or to claim 'articles like this is why the global alarmists can't be believed' - which reflects the character and tone of both the OP and many responses to it - is ignorance of that science.
This article does, however, point out a potential caveat that may be a bit counter-intuitive. By reducing our carbon emissions with EV's, wind turbines, and the like, we ARE in fact also reducing the number of particulates we put into the atmosphere. And that might have a temporary down side of amplifying the CO2 induced warming in the short term.
Why not keep putting particulates into the air then? Aside from the health consequences, because along with those particulates comes CO2, a long term forcing - which means that for every week of cooling, we are adding years of warming.
But putting particulates into the atmosphere in a way that does not introduce CO2 or other greenhouse gases might be a solution to that problem - assuming the particulates used don't impact health and will settle out relatively quickly so that they can be dialed back as the CO2 levels gradually decline. But there may well be better solutions than polluting the atmosphere.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 02-16-2021, 08:36 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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