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  • #46
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It's not "rediculous" at all.
    Well spotted, I had missed that.

    Comment


    • #47
      Are there people who supported Brexit, even knowing that it would be a financial hit to Britain? Maybe some people realised the economic consequences, yet thought Brexit was still worth it for other reasons....
      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
        Are there people who supported Brexit, even knowing that it would be a financial hit to Britain?

        There is some evidence from among the more high profile Brexiteers that they ensured their businesses were/are protected.

        Jacob Rees Mogg MP and an advocate for a "hard Brexit" was forced to defend a decision by a City firm he co-founded when in 2018 it set up an investment fund in Eire [i.e. the EU] and warned its clients of the dangers of a "hard Brexit".

        Late last year it was discovered that Sir Jim Ratcliffe another prominent Brexit supporter and the owner of Ineos had decided not to have his Grenadier car built [as he had initially stated] at a new factory in Wales thereby creating jobs for British workers but instead decided to use a former Mercedez-Benz factory in Moselle, France. Among the reasons he cited for that decision was that the new site was "well located for access to markets, suppliers and automotive talent". He also last year changed his tax domicile status from Hampshire, UK to the benefits of Monaco.

        Another staunch Brexit supporter James Dyson [of vacuum cleaner fame] was quoted in 2016 that he would not stop investing in factories in Britain merely because of rising costs with the EU. In 2019 his company announced it would be moving its headquarters from Wiltshire in the UK to Singapore.

        Yet another Brexit supporter Paul Staines, who edits the right wing blog site Guido Fawkes is understood to reside in Eire [again within the EU].

        Brexit supporter Lord Ashcroft a member of the House of Lords is has non-dom tax status in the UK and despite promising to become a permanent UK resident [and tax payer] in 2000, it was not until a change in the law forced him to do so in order to remain a peer. However, it appears he was less than honest about that given that the Paradise Papers in 2017 revealed that he had remained a domicile of Belize despite having claimed in 2010 to have given up his non-dom status.

        As for Nigel Farage rumour has it that [given that his wife is German] he has applied for a German passport.


        Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
        Maybe some people realised the economic consequences, yet thought Brexit was still worth it for other reasons....
        Can you think of any?
        Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 01-26-2021, 08:08 AM.
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
          Are there people who supported Brexit, even knowing that it would be a financial hit to Britain? Maybe some people realised the economic consequences, yet thought Brexit was still worth it for other reasons....
          My understanding was that - in the long run - Brits would be better off unhinged from the EU.

          From a distance, Brexit seems logical to me. How does it benefit Britain to have collective trade deals arranged (in part) by countries that don't have Britain's best interests at heart? But I don't claim to know all the details of this.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post

            You're not supposed to believe your eyes, but what Chuck Todd and George Stephanopolous tell you.
            The liberal talking point is that all the cases were dismissed, nothing has ever been proven in court. As Rand Paul pointed out to George Staphylococcus in a recent interview, those cases were rejected not due to lack of evidence but lack of standing which is a procedure for dismissing a case without considering the evidence. George could do nothing but spout liberal talking points without addressing any of Senator Paul's arguments.
            Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-26-2021, 08:25 AM.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              The liberal talking point is that all the cases were dismissed, nothing has ever been proven in court. As Rand Paul pointed out to George Staphylococcus in a recent interview, those cases were rejected not due to lack of evidence but lack of standing which is a procedure for dismissing a case without considering the evidence. George could do nothing but spout liberal talking points without addressing any of Senator Paul's arguments.
              Although I wish Paul had thumped that partisan hack and not referred to him as a "journalist" (because he's not), I realize Paul's intent was to reach out to that MSM audience which is behind the Iron Curtain.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


                There is some evidence from among the more high profile Brexiteers that they ensured their businesses were/are protected.

                Jacob Rees Mogg MP and an advocate for a "hard Brexit" was forced to defend a decision by a City firm he co-founded when in 2018 it set up an investment fund in Eire [i.e. the EU] and warned its clients of the dangers of a "hard Brexit".

                Late last year it was discovered that Sir Jim Ratcliffe another prominent Brexit supporter and the owner of Ineos had decided not to have his Grenadier car built [as he had initially stated] at a new factory in Wales thereby creating jobs for British workers but instead decided to use a former Mercedez-Benz factory in Moselle, France. Among the reasons he cited for that decision was that the new site was "well located for access to markets, suppliers and automotive talent". He also last year changed his tax domicile status from Hampshire, UK to the benefits of Monaco.

                Another staunch Brexit supporter James Dyson [of vacuum cleaner fame] was quoted in 2016 that he would not stop investing in factories in Britain merely because of rising costs with the EU. In 2019 his company announced it would be moving its headquarters from Wiltshire in the UK to Singapore.

                Yet another Brexit supporter Paul Staines, who edits the right wing blog site Guido Fawkes is understood to reside in Eire [again within the EU].

                Brexit supporter Lord Ashcroft a member of the House of Lords is has non-dom tax status in the UK and despite promising to become a permanent UK resident [and tax payer] in 2000, it was not until a change in the law forced him to do so in order to remain a peer. However, it appears he was less than honest about that given that the Paradise Papers in 2017 revealed that he had remained a domicile of Belize despite having claimed in 2010 to have given up his non-dom status.

                As for Nigel Farage rumour has it that [given that his wife is German] he has applied for a German passport.


                Can you think of any?


                I was more thinking of 'ordinary people' who wanted Brexit even though they realised that there were economic implications. National sovereignty seems to be one reason I had heard somewhere for Brexit. You seem to think that the only possible reason could be something to do with finances, and if that was the only reason, then Brexit was at least for now a bad deal. Maybe there are other reasons people wanted it.
                ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by MaxVel View Post



                  I was more thinking of 'ordinary people' who wanted Brexit even though they realised that there were economic implications. National sovereignty seems to be one reason I had heard somewhere for Brexit.
                  What exactly is this "national sovereignty"?

                  No one has ever adequately defined it nor what benefits it offers a country like the UK.

                  Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                  You seem to think that the only possible reason could be something to do with finances, and if that was the only reason, then Brexit was at least for now a bad deal. Maybe there are other reasons people wanted it.
                  I suspect given the chaos that is currently being witnessed in the UK, illustrated by the article referenced in the OP of this thread, the situation is only going to get a lot worse.

                  I would not be in the least surprised if in ten years [or less] there is a serious campaign to either rejoin the EU or at least apply for EEA status.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    What exactly is this "national sovereignty"?

                    No one has ever adequately defined it nor what benefits it offers a country like the UK.
                    That's a pretty massive handwave. It's only a Google away, so you're objectively wrong here. Are you really this fixated on how you think, and so incapable of trying to understand how others think?


                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria

                    I suspect given the chaos that is currently being witnessed in the UK, illustrated by the article referenced in the OP of this thread, the situation is only going to get a lot worse.

                    I would not be in the least surprised if in ten years [or less] there is a serious campaign to either rejoin the EU or at least apply for EEA status.

                    Irrelevant to the question of what reasons people might have had for supporting Brexit other than because they thought it would benefit them economically.
                    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by MaxVel View Post

                      That's a pretty massive handwave. It's only a Google away, so you're objectively wrong here.
                      There is nothing pertaining to British sovereignty now that it did not have when it was in the EU. It could still pass its own laws; it was still in control of its territories; and it still formed its own governments.


                      Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                      Are you really this fixated on how you think, and so incapable of trying to understand how others think?
                      As a European I have watched Brexit unfold and seen the lies told to the British people over what they would gain from leaving the EU. Now the reality has arrived.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aB8C4cbBno" data-vcode=" v=9aB8C4cbBno" data-vprovider="youtube" >


                      https://www.businessforscotland.com/...-and-counting/

                      And of course the impact of all that extra "red tape" that the government was assuring its business sector was not going to affect it adversely.

                      https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/b...dustry-uk.html

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y65154sF9AM " data-vcode=" v=Y65154sF9AM" data-vprovider="youtube" >


                      Originally posted by MaxVel View Post

                      Irrelevant to the question of what reasons people might have had for supporting Brexit other than because they thought it would benefit them economically.
                      In my opinion [and I am hardly alone in thinking this] what drove the Brexit/Leave campaign was a dangerous imperialistic misconception among some concerning modern Britain's standing in the world and that it was still in some way a Great Power.

                      The English [and the vote to Leave was an English and Welsh decision given that both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted Remain] are going to have to “wake up and smell the coffee” quite quickly and no doubt quite painfully and recognise that they are nothing more than a small island just off the coast of mainland Europe. Furthermore, if the SNP has its way then in the next few years Scotland may cede from the Union leaving simply England and Wales.
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                        There is nothing pertaining to British sovereignty now that it did not have when it was in the EU. It could still pass its own laws; it was still in control of its territories; and it still formed its own governments.


                        As a European I have watched Brexit unfold and seen the lies told to the British people over what they would gain from leaving the EU. Now the reality has arrived.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aB8C4cbBno" data-vcode=" v=9aB8C4cbBno" data-vprovider="youtube" >


                        https://www.businessforscotland.com/...-and-counting/

                        And of course the impact of all that extra "red tape" that the government was assuring its business sector was not going to affect it adversely.

                        https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/b...dustry-uk.html

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y65154sF9AM " data-vcode=" v=Y65154sF9AM" data-vprovider="youtube" >


                        In my opinion [and I am hardly alone in thinking this] what drove the Brexit/Leave campaign was a dangerous imperialistic misconception among some concerning modern Britain's standing in the world and that it was still in some way a Great Power.

                        The English [and the vote to Leave was an English and Welsh decision given that both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted Remain] are going to have to “wake up and smell the coffee” quite quickly and no doubt quite painfully and recognise that they are nothing more than a small island just off the coast of mainland Europe. Furthermore, if the SNP has its way then in the next few years Scotland may cede from the Union leaving simply England and Wales.


                        Uh huh.


                        I guess that's the end of the conversation, since you're not actually trying to engage with the point I made. I suspect that there are some who voted for Leave who would not regret their vote even if your prognostications prove correct. Which means that you just don't understand their motivations, and that their value system is very differnt to yours.
                        ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                          My understanding was that - in the long run - Brits would be better off unhinged from the EU.
                          In what way?

                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by MaxVel View Post



                            Uh huh.


                            I guess that's the end of the conversation, since you're not actually trying to engage with the point I made. I suspect that there are some who voted for Leave who would not regret their vote even if your prognostications prove correct. Which means that you just don't understand their motivations, and that their value system is very differnt to yours.
                            What have they got now they did not have as part of the EU?

                            It is odd that no one either during the campaign or since can actually answer that question with any real evidence.

                            As to not having regrets the very rich will prosper as they always do and parts of England may become free ports thus enabling international criminals to launder their money with even more ease. London was/is already the money laundering capital of the world.

                            Perhaps England will end up like Belize where the average monthly income is around US$1900
                            Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 01-28-2021, 07:14 AM.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              What have they got now they did not have as part of the EU?

                              It is odd that no one either during the campaign or since can actually answer that question with any real evidence.
                              Your habit of unsupported and unsupportable sweeping generalisations is unfortunate. That's twice in a few posts.

                              Read this Forbes article, or read the Wikipedia entry on causes of Brexit if you want to begin to understand different viewpoints than your own. Or not.

                              You're obviously not trying. At all. I thought you were meant to be smart?

                              ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by MaxVel View Post

                                Your habit of unsupported and unsupportable sweeping generalisations is unfortunate.
                                Firstly the Forbes article is over four years old and a lot has happened since July 2016. Secondly, what I wrote concerning British national sovereignty while part of the EU was fact.

                                Thirdly, the economic crisis of 2008 was hardly the specific and sole fault of the EU. Fourthly, Europe did not "throw up trade barriers against Britain". Britain decided [as a sovereign state] to leave the EU, the single market, and the customs union.

                                As for the financial sector there has already been a shift away from Britain. The Irish Times reported in 19 September 2019 that "Some 29 financial services (FS) companies have relocated staff or services from London to Dublin as a result of Brexit, according to a new report. This makes Dublin the most popular relocation site for the sector, with Luxembourg next on 25 and Frankfurt on 24. Dublin has mainly attracted insurance, banking and asset management firms, along with a “significant proportion” of globally systemically important banks"

                                As for the Brexit vote being against "the elite" who led the Leave campaign? Millionaires and former public [including Eton] schoolboys from the [so-called ]"upper classes".

                                Nor should we ignore the effect of Brexit masking austerity [another Conservative public schoolboy idea]. Far easier to blame Johnny Foreigner or the "darkies" than address the social issues caused by successive years of Conservative government. Common views expressed in the mid 1980s about foreigners taking English homes, swamping the NHS, taking British jobs were still held by many of that generation when it came to vote in 2016

                                I would also add that while the EU is very far from a perfect union it should be noted that the most innovative forms of education, the best-funded healthcare systems, the highest quality of housing, the greatest job protection and productivity, and the lowest rates of poverty are all found in parts of mainland of Europe, not in Britain.


                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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