Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

What was the point?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What was the point?

    I am sure that any UK contributors will already know this but for anyone else, the following beggars belief. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-up-shop-in-eu

    Apparently UK firms have been advised by British government officials to move to the EU in order to avoid the additional costs that have been caused by the Brexit.

    British businesses that export to the continent are being encouraged by government trade advisers to set up separate companies inside the EU in order to get around extra charges, paperwork and taxes resulting from Brexit, the Observer can reveal.

    In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

    The heads of two UK businesses that have been beset by Brexit-related problems have told the Observer that, following advice from experts at the Department for International Trade, they have already decided to register new companies in the EU in the next few weeks, and they knew of many others in similar positions. Other companies have also said they too were advised by government officials to register operations in the EU but had not yet made decisions.

    Andrew Moss, who runs Horizon Retail Marketing Solutions, based in Ely, Cambridgeshire, which sells packaging and point-of-sale marketing displays in the UK and to EU customers, is registering a European company Horizon Europe in the Netherlands in the next few weeks, on the advice of a senior government adviser.

    This will mean laying off a small number of staff here and taking on people in the Netherlands.

    Referring to discussions with a senior DIT adviser on trade, Moss said: “This guy talked complete sense. What I said to him was, have I got another choice [other than to set up a company abroad]? He confirmed that he couldn’t see another way. He told me that what I was thinking of doing was the right thing, that he could see no other option. He did not see this as a teething problem. He said he had to be careful what he said, but he was very clear.”

    Moss said it was now clear that Brexit was not about winning back control from the EU but investing in it to survive.

    Geoffrey Betts, managing director of Stewart Superior Ltd, a company in Marlow, Bucks, which sells office supplies to UK and continental customers, said he had also decided to set up a company in the Netherlands for the same reasons.

    He had also spoken to an official at the Department for International Trade before making his decision and received the same advice. “When the government said it had secured free trade, it was obvious it was nothing of the sort,” said Betts. VAT issues, new charges on moving goods and more bureaucracy all added up to an “administrative nightmare”, he said.

    By moving operations into the EU and shipping out large consignments from the UK to their new European operations, the businesses can not only avoid cross-border delays and costs on every single small consignment they send, but can also defuse VAT problems that are currently hitting them and their European customers hard.

    The Department for International Trade was approached for comment but did not respond.



    Thus the decision to vote to leave the EU and thereby [allegedly] liberate the UK from the stifling regulatory constraints of Brussels and permit it to become a liberated and free trade nation were just lies [shock horror] and Johnson's "cakiest treaty" [i.e. having their cake and eating it] that he announced on 24 December was complete and utter nonsense.

    Instead, it transpires that the deal has created mountains of further red tape [or is that red, white, and blue tape] which is pushing small and medium British businesses [that entrepreneurial class so admired by the Tories] to the brink of collapse and ruin.

    Hence the government's own departments are now suggesting that such companies open businesses in the EU which will entail laying off British workers, employing staff in EU countries, and paying EU taxes.

    The UK may just as well have stayed in the EU!

    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I am sure that any UK contributors will already know this but for anyone else, the following beggars belief. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-up-shop-in-eu

    Apparently UK firms have been advised by British government officials to move to the EU in order to avoid the additional costs that have been caused by the Brexit.

    British businesses that export to the continent are being encouraged by government trade advisers to set up separate companies inside the EU in order to get around extra charges, paperwork and taxes resulting from Brexit, the Observer can reveal.

    In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

    The heads of two UK businesses that have been beset by Brexit-related problems have told the Observer that, following advice from experts at the Department for International Trade, they have already decided to register new companies in the EU in the next few weeks, and they knew of many others in similar positions. Other companies have also said they too were advised by government officials to register operations in the EU but had not yet made decisions.

    Andrew Moss, who runs Horizon Retail Marketing Solutions, based in Ely, Cambridgeshire, which sells packaging and point-of-sale marketing displays in the UK and to EU customers, is registering a European company Horizon Europe in the Netherlands in the next few weeks, on the advice of a senior government adviser.

    This will mean laying off a small number of staff here and taking on people in the Netherlands.

    Referring to discussions with a senior DIT adviser on trade, Moss said: “This guy talked complete sense. What I said to him was, have I got another choice [other than to set up a company abroad]? He confirmed that he couldn’t see another way. He told me that what I was thinking of doing was the right thing, that he could see no other option. He did not see this as a teething problem. He said he had to be careful what he said, but he was very clear.”

    Moss said it was now clear that Brexit was not about winning back control from the EU but investing in it to survive.

    Geoffrey Betts, managing director of Stewart Superior Ltd, a company in Marlow, Bucks, which sells office supplies to UK and continental customers, said he had also decided to set up a company in the Netherlands for the same reasons.

    He had also spoken to an official at the Department for International Trade before making his decision and received the same advice. “When the government said it had secured free trade, it was obvious it was nothing of the sort,” said Betts. VAT issues, new charges on moving goods and more bureaucracy all added up to an “administrative nightmare”, he said.

    By moving operations into the EU and shipping out large consignments from the UK to their new European operations, the businesses can not only avoid cross-border delays and costs on every single small consignment they send, but can also defuse VAT problems that are currently hitting them and their European customers hard.

    The Department for International Trade was approached for comment but did not respond.



    Thus the decision to vote to leave the EU and thereby [allegedly] liberate the UK from the stifling regulatory constraints of Brussels and permit it to become a liberated and free trade nation were just lies [shock horror] and Johnson's "cakiest treaty" [i.e. having their cake and eating it] that he announced on 24 December was complete and utter nonsense.

    Instead, it transpires that the deal has created mountains of further red tape [or is that red, white, and blue tape] which is pushing small and medium British businesses [that entrepreneurial class so admired by the Tories] to the brink of collapse and ruin.

    Hence the government's own departments are now suggesting that such companies open businesses in the EU which will entail laying off British workers, employing staff in EU countries, and paying EU taxes.

    The UK may just as well have stayed in the EU!
    Had the Left in the nation accepted their loss in the referendum, and actually worked in good faith with the rest of the nation over the last 5 years or so, instead of contintinually trying to reverse, undo, or have a "re-do", maybe a constructive exit deal that benefitedthe people of the UK could have been hammered out.....

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

      Had the Left in the nation accepted their loss in the referendum, and actually worked in good faith with the rest of the nation over the last 5 years or so, instead of contintinually trying to reverse, undo, or have a "re-do", maybe a constructive exit deal that benefitedthe people of the UK could have been hammered out.....
      Sure, the whole Brexit mess is the fault of those who thought it was a crap idea to begin with

      ... And who have since been proven incontrovertibly right about pretty much everything, I might add.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        I am sure that any UK contributors will already know this but for anyone else, the following beggars belief. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-up-shop-in-eu

        Apparently UK firms have been advised by British government officials to move to the EU in order to avoid the additional costs that have been caused by the Brexit.

        British businesses that export to the continent are being encouraged by government trade advisers to set up separate companies inside the EU in order to get around extra charges, paperwork and taxes resulting from Brexit, the Observer can reveal.

        In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

        The heads of two UK businesses that have been beset by Brexit-related problems have told the Observer that, following advice from experts at the Department for International Trade, they have already decided to register new companies in the EU in the next few weeks, and they knew of many others in similar positions. Other companies have also said they too were advised by government officials to register operations in the EU but had not yet made decisions.

        Andrew Moss, who runs Horizon Retail Marketing Solutions, based in Ely, Cambridgeshire, which sells packaging and point-of-sale marketing displays in the UK and to EU customers, is registering a European company Horizon Europe in the Netherlands in the next few weeks, on the advice of a senior government adviser.

        This will mean laying off a small number of staff here and taking on people in the Netherlands.

        Referring to discussions with a senior DIT adviser on trade, Moss said: “This guy talked complete sense. What I said to him was, have I got another choice [other than to set up a company abroad]? He confirmed that he couldn’t see another way. He told me that what I was thinking of doing was the right thing, that he could see no other option. He did not see this as a teething problem. He said he had to be careful what he said, but he was very clear.”

        Moss said it was now clear that Brexit was not about winning back control from the EU but investing in it to survive.

        Geoffrey Betts, managing director of Stewart Superior Ltd, a company in Marlow, Bucks, which sells office supplies to UK and continental customers, said he had also decided to set up a company in the Netherlands for the same reasons.

        He had also spoken to an official at the Department for International Trade before making his decision and received the same advice. “When the government said it had secured free trade, it was obvious it was nothing of the sort,” said Betts. VAT issues, new charges on moving goods and more bureaucracy all added up to an “administrative nightmare”, he said.

        By moving operations into the EU and shipping out large consignments from the UK to their new European operations, the businesses can not only avoid cross-border delays and costs on every single small consignment they send, but can also defuse VAT problems that are currently hitting them and their European customers hard.

        The Department for International Trade was approached for comment but did not respond.



        Thus the decision to vote to leave the EU and thereby [allegedly] liberate the UK from the stifling regulatory constraints of Brussels and permit it to become a liberated and free trade nation were just lies [shock horror] and Johnson's "cakiest treaty" [i.e. having their cake and eating it] that he announced on 24 December was complete and utter nonsense.

        Instead, it transpires that the deal has created mountains of further red tape [or is that red, white, and blue tape] which is pushing small and medium British businesses [that entrepreneurial class so admired by the Tories] to the brink of collapse and ruin.

        Hence the government's own departments are now suggesting that such companies open businesses in the EU which will entail laying off British workers, employing staff in EU countries, and paying EU taxes.

        The UK may just as well have stayed in the EU!
        There was no point really. It was a nonsense from start to finish. I'm of the opinion now that England actually needs a colossal avoidable embarrassment like this so they can come to terms with their place in the world. I wish those who voted for the country to shoot itself in the foot hadn't dragged the rest of us down with them though.

        On top of this we've been lumped with a annual £7bn bill from the resulting red tape from Johnson's 'deal'. Yay.

        As the FT reports this weekend, EU negotiators were astonished to discover that Johnson and his gang never cared at all about economics; they were obsessed with their own fantastical notion of "sovereignty", and believed that, somehow, the UK was the equal of the EU and deserved to be treated as such.

        Comment


        • #5
          (Click to expand, I hope)

          Brexit is the gift that will keep on giving.

          I'm actually a little jealous of the USA for the first time that I can remember - at least they've voted now to turn some kind of corner into being a grownup country again.

          dww1ktxky9d61.png
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #6
            zs3des8a26d61.jpg
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

              Sure, the whole Brexit mess is the fault of those who thought it was a crap idea to begin with

              ... And who have since been proven incontrovertibly right about pretty much everything, I might add.
              Nothing like working to ensure your own prophecy comes true by any means to make feel nice and superior, eh?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                Nothing like working to ensure your own prophecy comes true by any means to make feel nice and superior, eh?
                It was all a given since May set her red lines to leave the single market and customs union. Once we left those, the rest pretty much followed like night follows day.

                It's true however that no possible deal was as good as what we had, so it was just a matter of levels of bad and/or pointless - however the fact that the people who pushed the whole farce on us from the start (the cabinet are all made up of brexit true believers and assorted sycophants) 'negotiated' such a poor one is telling.


                However I'd love to hear what sort of deal you think could have been better than full access with opt outs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  Had the Left in the nation accepted their loss in the referendum, and actually worked in good faith with the rest of the nation over the last 5 years or so, instead of contintinually trying to reverse, undo, or have a "re-do", maybe a constructive exit deal that benefitedthe people of the UK could have been hammered out.....
                  Interestingly "the Left" in the UK as encapsulated by the [then] Labour Party leader in 2016 [i.e. Jeremy Corbyn] was of the Leave persuasion and his rather lacklustre campaign was criticised by members of his Party [the Labour Party official policy was to Remain].

                  Indeed elements of "the Left" in the UK have, for forty years or more, been opposed to the EEC/EU and in the past have actively campaigned to get the country out of the EU.

                  The Conservative Party has been in government in that country since 2010 and most of its MPs were in favour of Remain.

                  However, Brexit was a campaign promise by David Cameron, the Conservative leader, in the 2015 General Election manifesto because the Conservative Party had among its MPs a small rump of Eurosceptics and UKip led by Farage had been making inroads into Conservative constituencies. This was seen as potentially disastrous for the Conservatives because splitting the vote might permit either the Liberal Democrats or Labour to take Conservative parliamentary seats. Bear in mind that in the 2015 General Election the Conservatives were just coming out of a Coalition government with the Liberal Democrats because in 2010 no Party had won overall majority.

                  Hence in 2016 Cameron permitted his own Conservative party members [the Eurosceptics] to campaign against the official Conservative Party policy which was to Remain.

                  I cannot imagine such a situation being permitted by Mrs Thatcher. I suspect she would have informed her Eurosceptic MPs that if they wished to campaign against the established policy of the Conservative Party they must leave the Conservative Party in order to do so.

                  Cameron did not have her mettle.
                  "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
                    (Click to expand, I hope)

                    Brexit is the gift that will keep on giving.

                    I'm actually a little jealous of the USA for the first time that I can remember - at least they've voted now to turn some kind of corner into being a grownup country again.

                    dww1ktxky9d61.png
                    Perhaps it’s time to put a Cambridge man in charge?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                      Sure, the whole Brexit mess is the fault of those who thought it was a crap idea to begin with

                      ... And who have since been proven incontrovertibly right about pretty much everything, I might add.
                      That has always been pretty much the thinking expressed by the Democrats concerning any failures of Obamacare. If Republicans had only helped... But the Democrats didn't want their help on that or anything. They held overwhelming majorities in the House and Senate for the first two years (including a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for much of that time) so they neither sought nor wanted input from the Republicans. During those two years the Democrats refused to even consider a single Republican proposal.

                      As for the Obamessiah himself, he made sure that he rubbed it in their faces. Like when he haughtily told Eric Cantor (then second-ranking Republican in the House of Representatives), "Look at the polls. The polls are pretty good for me right now. Elections have consequences. And Eric, I won" when Cantor offered to negotiate on the stimulus package. Then Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel in his usual cordial manner put it another way: "We have the votes. 'F-bomb' them." In another occasion, he told Republicans that "they can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

                      Obama made it crystal clear that he did not need to or want to talk to the Republicans. He said it was useless because they were too extreme while simultaneously offering to open up unilateral talks with some of America's bitterest enemies like Iran (obviously because they were more reasonable than the Republicans ).

                      It was so bad that after the Republican landslide in 2010 where they regained control of the House, one of the great liberal heroes of journalism (being part of the team who's reporting on Watergate was largely responsible for taking down Nixon) reported in The Price of Politics that Obama literally had to ask his aides if they knew how to contact the incoming Republican leadership because he never talked to them before.

                      And yet according to the historical negationism that the left regularly engages in, and with the help of their Pretorian Guard, the MSM, we regularly get told that anything wrong was the result of Republican obstructionism. None of them voted for Obamacare and only if some of them did then magically that would have changed everything. Those failed policies would have somehow, in some unknown way would have worked.

                      So, if what you're saying is true, then welcome to the club.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
                        Maybe the UK can grow up again and learn to work with its own people. I guess I just have heard from the Brits who have matured. But i may look into some reading about the billionaires and business interests that promoted Brexit. I'm a little curious about that.

                        I think the world is a safer place when nations can operate on their own and not be compelled into senseless wars as some big alliance -- on some petty dispute.
                        Last edited by mikewhitney; 01-24-2021, 04:47 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
                          Unless he's had a change of heart, John Cleese supported Brexit. This image misrepresents him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think the irony of the UK being part of the EU was in the modern complaints of many countries. Countries like India now complain about the influences of colonialism against their cultures. (Whether this is a valid complaint or some form of communism agitation, I am not quite sure.) Somehow people want to remain in a big system that takes over their economies and culture.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                              Maybe the UK can grow up again and learn to work with its own people. I guess I just have heard from the Brits who have matured. But i may look into some reading about the billionaires and business interests that promoted Brexit. I'm a little curious about that.

                              I think the world is a safer place when nations can operate on their own and not be compelled into senseless wars as some big alliance -- on some petty dispute.
                              Well, the billionaire backers of brexit made a pretty penny shorting the pound when the result first came through after the vote...

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by shunyadragon, Yesterday, 07:58 PM
                              24 responses
                              179 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post seanD
                              by seanD
                               
                              Started by seer, Yesterday, 04:06 PM
                              21 responses
                              136 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post seer
                              by seer
                               
                              Started by whag, Yesterday, 01:25 PM
                              4 responses
                              69 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post whag
                              by whag
                               
                              Started by seer, Yesterday, 08:51 AM
                              9 responses
                              96 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Diogenes  
                              Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 06:12 AM
                              28 responses
                              130 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post CivilDiscourse  
                              Working...
                              X