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Can unity happen if the left doesn't come to terms with its behavior?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    You miss the point though. The call for unity has happened. Can unity be achieved if one group of people, who actively participated in dragging the country apart, don't actually reflect on the part that they played?
    There never has been and never will be unity. Unity IS indeed same thought, same goals. What we once had, and need to return to is Civility. "I disagree with you but I believe you are entitled to your opinion" with out rancor. That's what we need. I'm never going to be unified with the Democratic platform, it just can't happen. Civility, that can be achieved. (well, could be if the other side would be introspective, which they won't so, civility will not be possible either)
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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    • #62
      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
      Simple question.

      The left over the last 4 years has engaged in a wide array of hateful, angry, violent rhetoric. They celebrated whenever a person they deemed toxic was deplatformed. Their angry rhetoric likely led to the attempted mass assassination attempt at the congressional baseball game practice. They've painted the entire other side as Nazi's, while having a debate about whether it was OK to "punch a nazi". Confrontations between protesters were cheered as good guys vs bad guys (conservatives). Over the summer, they rioted, with many blaming Trump for the riots, or excusing, justifying, minimizing, or rationalizing the violence.

      All of this is to say that the left didn't stay above the fray, they willingly jumped right into it, and played deep in the mud as much as they wanted.

      What about the right? I hear you asking. Shouldn't you be asking about them?

      The answer is NO. I shouldn't. The Right lost the election. The winners of the election are going to make sure that those who lost are reminded of their bad behavior. They are going to be reminded time and time again at how bad Trump was, and therefore how bad they were to be conservatvie when trump was there. Their bad behavior is going to be acknowledged.

      The left's though? Time and time again, it's been shown that their behavior rarely gets examined closely. Even now, bringing up the summer riots gets dismissed.
      Don't forget the Conservative bad behavior is acknowledge and decried by the Right as well as the left. When will the left do the same for the bad behavior on the left.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        I don't know a single person IRL who buys that stuff, and I'm pretty well connected in our community.



        Cool.


        And yet I know two in my family alone, and there are at least two in congress. One congresswoman believes Sandy Hook was a false flag and that 9/11 was an inside job.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          For the record, you realize Starlight is not a US Citizen, and just a political tourist?
          I think some of you guys who are in the thick of things can't see the forest for the trees and have skin in the game - you're too close to it and too involved to have an overall view.

          Whereas, with an outside, international perspective, I can see the shape of the conflict in your country more easily, and compare it to international baselines.

          What you guys can see, inside your country, is that the right and left aren't behaving normally toward each other. But is that due to the right, the left, or both? If your metric is simply the two sides in your own country, you can't tell - you've got no baseline to compare it to and you can't work out whose gone off the rails.

          Whereas, given an international average, it's easy to plot out how the parties in your country have changed, compared to average parties in other countries. So it's relatively easy for me, and other people in the rest of the Western world, as outsiders, to see what the playing field in your country looks like. But you guys don't want to hear the uncomfortable truth from us in the rest of the Western world: That your left-wing is, if anything, more to the right than it should be and that the Democrats would rate as a centrist or right-wing party by the standards of the rest of the Western world, and that your right-wing and right-wing party have totally gone off the rails into utter insanity and levels of crazy that are almost unprecedented anywhere in the Western world.

          You don't want to hear that basic truth that the rest of the Western world would be ready to tell you if you asked. So you shut your ears to it and sing 'la la la, I can't hear you' when I tell it to you, and you shoot the messenger by claiming that since we're not American you don't need to listen to us at all. And it's pretty easy to conclude from your actions that your ignorance is willful, and that you aren't interested in truth.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by whag View Post

            And yet I know two in my family alone, and there are at least two in congress. One congresswoman believes Sandy Hook was a false flag and that 9/11 was an inside job.
            I know two who are former members of Congress who are 9/11 Truthers, Daniel Hamburg (D-CA) and Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) and the late John Lewis (D-GA) flirted with it. And there was Obama's "Green Energy Czar", Anthony Kapel Jones (a.k.a., "Van Jones"). Currently the only one in office is the recently elected Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA).

            What is it with elected officials from Georgia and 9/11 Trutherism?



            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              I think some of you guys who are in the thick of things can't see the forest for the trees and have skin in the game - you're too close to it and too involved to have an overall view.

              Whereas, with an outside, international perspective, I can see the shape of the conflict in your country more easily, and compare it to international baselines.

              What you guys can see, inside your country, is that the right and left aren't behaving normally toward each other. But is that due to the right, the left, or both? If your metric is simply the two sides in your own country, you can't tell - you've got no baseline to compare it to and you can't work out whose gone off the rails.

              Whereas, given an international average, it's easy to plot out how the parties in your country have changed, compared to average parties in other countries. So it's relatively easy for me, and other people in the rest of the Western world, as outsiders, to see what the playing field in your country looks like. But you guys don't want to hear the uncomfortable truth from us in the rest of the Western world: That your left-wing is, if anything, more to the right than it should be and that the Democrats would rate as a centrist or right-wing party by the standards of the rest of the Western world, and that your right-wing and right-wing party have totally gone off the rails into utter insanity and levels of crazy that are almost unprecedented anywhere in the Western world.

              You don't want to hear that basic truth that the rest of the Western world would be ready to tell you if you asked. So you shut your ears to it and sing 'la la la, I can't hear you' when I tell it to you, and you shoot the messenger by claiming that since we're not American you don't need to listen to us at all. And it's pretty easy to conclude from your actions that your ignorance is willful, and that you aren't interested in truth.
              Was it this vaunted "outside international perspective" that allowed you to recently angrily keep insisting that the reliably red state of New York is actually under the control of the Republicans?

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                In every situation, there needs to arise a statesman calling for unity. Who, in your opinion, can that be?
                Biden appears to be backing the impeachment of Trump, although asking for it be pushed back until February 8, in order to give him some "breathing room" (or is it really nap time?), which if so pretty much flushes his whole unity, unity, unity mantra during his inauguration down the the toilet.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Was it this vaunted "outside international perspective" that allowed you to recently angrily keep insisting that the reliably red state of New York is actually under the control of the Republicans?
                  If you want to keep bringing up the fact that you, in your utter ignorance, wrongly assumed that NY being a 'blue' state meant that Republicans could not have possibly had recently controlled the NY State Senate, and wrongly tried to correct me on the topic, by all means, continue parading your failures and my accuracy around TWeb.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    If you want to keep bringing up the fact that you, in your utter ignorance, wrongly assumed that NY being a 'blue' state meant that Republicans could not have possibly had recently controlled the NY State Senate, and wrongly tried to correct me on the topic, by all means, continue parading your failures and my accuracy around TWeb.
                    Sorry, I know that you leftist have a thing about historical revisionism but you initially didn't say a word about having a majority of the state Senate but rather claimed that you disliked Cuomo because "his betrayal of the Democratic party by his creation of the IDF in order to give Republicans a majority in NY state in order to thwart progressives" You were claiming that the Republicans controlled the state.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Sorry, I know that you leftist have a thing about historical revisionism but you initially didn't say a word about having a majority of the state Senate but rather claimed that you disliked Cuomo because "his betrayal of the Democratic party by his creation of the IDC in order to give Republicans a majority in NY state in order to thwart progressives" You were claiming that the Republicans controlled the state.
                      You have incredibly poor reading comprehension skills, which you have demonstrated over and over again on this site. But which you demonstrated in that thread and once again demonstrate here with your interpretation of my post.

                      You really, really SUCK at really basic reading comprehension. It's really quite incredible.

                      Your creative reinterpretation of my post doesn't make any sense whatsoever. In your reading of my words, do you think I thought Cuomo was a Republican or democrat? It surely should have been obvious, even to someone as stupid as you, that I was well aware Cuomo was a Democrat. Yet, somehow, you managed to read my post and think I was saying that the Republicans had a majority in the NY State Assembly, a majority in the NY State Senate, and had a Republican governor in NY.

                      Somehow, you are literally so stupid that it doesn't seem to have occurred to you that since I knew Cuomo was a Democrat I couldn't have thought NY had a Republican governor, and that therefore I must have been talking about either the NY State Senate or the Assembly or both. Understandably given your own complete and utter ignorance of NY politics, you didn't know what the IDC was or what Cuomo's creation of it had accomplished, so you didn't know it was a NY State Senate entity whose purpose was to give Republicans a de facto majority in the NY State Senate despite Dems having more members of the State Senate than Republicans. But even given your huge level of ignorance of NY State politics, it should have been absolutely obvious to someone even as dimwitted as you that the way you were misreading my words made no sense at all. And then, no matter how many times I pointed out to you that I didn't think this, you double, tripled, and quadrupled down on your own idiocy and moronicness.

                      You really made an utter and total fool of yourself over this. You misinterpreted my post, were ignorant of NY state politics, and tripped over your own pride in your rush to assume that you, the utterly ignorant hick from a backwater state, totally must know more about a state you know very little about than the well-educated foreigner who watches multiple podcasts daily by political experts who broadcast from and live in that state. Sorry moron. You failed. Try to learn from your failure, and don't keep derailing other people's threads by bringing up your idiocy.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        P.S. More than 6 months ago I wrote this post which likens "the first thing Dems will do on taking the presidency and achieving majorities in both houses of congress will be fully restoring the filibuster rules to ensure Senate Republicans can block anything the Dems want to do" to "Cuomo's IDC in NY".

                        Since I'm sure you're too poor at reading comprehension Rogue to understand that analogy made in that post, it works like this: In the Federal Govt, like NY State, the Dems have/had outright majorities in both houses and in the Presidency/Governorship. But in the Federal Senate just like the NY State Senate, the Dems would cede just enough power to Republicans to allow them to block anything the Dems tried to pass. That's how the IDC functioned in NY in the State Senate, and it's how the filibuster would function in the Federal Senate. In both cases, Dems would theoretically have total majorities in the House/Assembly, the Senate, and the Governor/President. But I was saying in practice they would choose to cede just enough power to Republicans in the Senates in order for Republicans to be able to block it in the Senate.

                        I point this out just to show there's literally written evidence on this site that I did not believe Republicans had outright full control of NY state, if any were actually needed, and I was likening the Cuomo IDC situation to one in which Dems had total control of the federal government and ceded enough power to Republicans in the Senate for them to block Dem legislation.

                        That's probably too hard for you to understand though.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          You have incredibly poor reading comprehension skills, which you have demonstrated over and over again on this site. But which you demonstrated in that thread and once again demonstrate here with your interpretation of my post.

                          You really, really SUCK at really basic reading comprehension. It's really quite incredible.

                          Your creative reinterpretation of my post doesn't make any sense whatsoever. In your reading of my words, do you think I thought Cuomo was a Republican or democrat? It surely should have been obvious, even to someone as stupid as you, that I was well aware Cuomo was a Democrat. Yet, somehow, you managed to read my post and think I was saying that the Republicans had a majority in the NY State Assembly, a majority in the NY State Senate, and had a Republican governor in NY.

                          Somehow, you are literally so stupid that it doesn't seem to have occurred to you that since I knew Cuomo was a Democrat I couldn't have thought NY had a Republican governor, and that therefore I must have been talking about either the NY State Senate or the Assembly or both. Understandably given your own complete and utter ignorance of NY politics, you didn't know what the IDC was or what Cuomo's creation of it had accomplished, so you didn't know it was a NY State Senate entity whose purpose was to give Republicans a de facto majority in the NY State Senate despite Dems having more members of the State Senate than Republicans. But even given your huge level of ignorance of NY State politics, it should have been absolutely obvious to someone even as dimwitted as you that the way you were misreading my words made no sense at all. And then, no matter how many times I pointed out to you that I didn't think this, you double, tripled, and quadrupled down on your own idiocy and moronicness.

                          You really made an utter and total fool of yourself over this. You misinterpreted my post, were ignorant of NY state politics, and tripped over your own pride in your rush to assume that you, the utterly ignorant hick from a backwater state, totally must know more about a state you know very little about than the well-educated foreigner who watches multiple podcasts daily by political experts who broadcast from and live in that state. Sorry moron. You failed. Try to learn from your failure, and don't keep derailing other people's threads by bringing up your idiocy.
                          There is no failure at reading comprehension on my part no matter how much you wish to stomp your feet, hold your breath and throw a tantrum. I quoted you showing that you in your typical arrogant ignorance claiming that Republicans held a majority in New York itself not the New York Senate. Flail and fail all you want but that is incontrovertible fact in spite of your laughably idiotic claim that I shouldn't "pretend to educate me about things I know 10x more than you about"

                          In your I'm-the-smartest-person-in-whatever-room-I-walk-into pomposity you didn't have the slightest clue that in spite of occasionally controlling the state Senate that didn't give the Republicans majority control of the state itself. The fact is that New York's legislature is bicameral in nature, just like the federal legislative branch is. So periodically controlling the New York Senate during the last decade while the New York Assembly (equivalent of the U.S. House of Representatives) has remained in Democrat control since 1975 and the governorship has been in control of the Democrats since 2007 (with Republicans having only held that office for 13 of the last 50 years) means that the Democrats have been the majority and in firm control of the state of New York for decades.

                          You're either the poster boy for Dunning–Kruger effect squared or just too pigheaded and egotistical to ever admit that you don't know squat about what you were pontificating about. And like whenever that is the case you immediately fall into a frothing spittle-flecked tirade.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Again I apologize to CivilDiscourse for allowing start to pull me into an off-topic discussion.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              I don't think it's possible for the left to realize their part - I think they're 100% convinced they're in the right. There needs to be that introspection, and it's blocked by revenge.
                              I think the left see it differently; Trump was a great sin inflicted on Americans and even the whole world by the right and the lies they told themselves to justify their sin. Only they can atone for that sin, while the righteous left wait to forgive them. Reconciliation is suspended by the right’s obfuscation.
                              ďI think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.Ē ― Oscar Wilde
                              ďAnd if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existenceĒ ― Bertrand Russell
                              ďnot all thereĒ - you know who you are

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                                I think the left see it differently; Trump was a great sin inflicted on Americans and even the whole world by the right and the lies they told themselves to justify their sin. Only they can atone for that sin, while the righteous left wait to forgive them. Reconciliation is suspended by the right’s obfuscation.
                                Yes, I expect they do see it that way. This allows them to ignore the parts they played. The hate they spewed, the rhetoric they used, the violence they excused. The felt it was righteous, and therefore they did nothing wrong.

                                Comment

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