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Is this the first sign of "The Great Falling Away"?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by kccd View Post

    Well, I grew up working class too, surrounded by oil refineries.

    My point is that a 2 year job for a few thousand people is a drop in the bucket when we are considering national needs. And when we balance those jobs against the environmental damage done by the pipeline and by refining and using that shale oil.

    The best policy is to favor sectors and businesses that provide long term, well-paying jobs for many, many tens of thousands of people, and that is what is happening in the alternative energy sector, which has the added benefit of being more environmentally friendly. The growth there in jobs and salaries way outstrips the fossil fuel industries.
    Ah so it's a 'drop in the bucket', so instead of letting those people of the nation that need it, drink it, you say screw it - and them - and toss it out into the fire. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

      Ah so it's a 'drop in the bucket', so instead of letting those people of the nation that need it, drink it, you say screw it - and them - and toss it out into the fire. How does that make any sense whatsoever?
      No. I recognize that a 2 year job for a small group of people is a big deal for those people.
      But the damage done to the environment by the product of those jobs is more significant.

      And if efforts are being made for job creation, they should go to creating huge numbers of long term jobs in industries with a future, not a few jobs in a horse and buggy dying industry..

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        You seem to be almost entirely unaware of the tremendous amount of violence and destruction committed over many months by the "mostly peaceful protestors" representing Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and other Democrat approved groups, so how else to explain it other than you didn't follow the events very closely? Or perhaps you did follow the events closely and are fully aware of what I'm referring to but are playing your usual game of selective willful ignorance because you seem to have gotten it into your head that this is good debate tactic.
        https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/blm-protests/

        https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/u...act-check.html

        https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-people-injur/

        And let us not try to pretend that the police have always been angels.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLnRAI500jY
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          there were people killed in the riots over the summer. And I'm not speaking just of your examples.

          At least 25 Americans were killed during protests and political unrest in 2020
          It's interesting looking down that page, and looking at who did the killing.

          By my tally, from that page, of the killings where we know the perpetrators, the perpetrators' affiliations were:

          Right-wingers: 8
          Police: 3
          Neutral 3rd parties: 3
          Left-wingers: 2

          It's interesting that despite year-long protests by left-wing and BLM groups, when causalities did occur, left-wingers were the least likely to be the ones inflicting them. I was somewhat surprised to see that police were not particularly likely to be ones who fired the deadly shots in these incidents either.

          Even after all the reports I've read about right-wing violence and domestic terrorism being a huge problem in America, I was still somehow surprised to see that right-wingers killed as many people as the other 3 groups combined in those 2020 protests.

          So when you speak of the protests being violent and people being killed, it's very much worth noting that it was very much right-wingers, and not left-wingers, who did the killings.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/20/technology/proud-boys-trump.html

            ‘A Total Failure’: The Proud Boys Now Mock Trump

            Members of the far-right group, who were among Donald Trump’s staunchest fans, are calling him “weak” as more of them were charged for storming the U.S. Capitol.

            After the presidential election last year, the Proud Boys, a far-right group, declared its undying loyalty to President Trump.

            In a Nov. 8 post in a private channel of the messaging app Telegram, the group urged its followers to attend protests against an election that it said had been fraudulently stolen from Mr. Trump. “Hail Emperor Trump,” the Proud Boys wrote.

            But by this week, the group’s attitude toward Mr. Trump had changed. “Trump will go down as a total failure,” the Proud Boys said in the same Telegram channel on Monday.

            As Mr. Trump departed the White House on Wednesday, the Proud Boys, once among his staunchest supporters, have also started leaving his side. In dozens of conversations on social media sites like Gab and Telegram, members of the group have begun calling Mr. Trump a “shill” and “extraordinarily weak,” according to messages reviewed by The New York Times. They have also urged supporters to stop attending rallies and protests held for Mr. Trump or the Republican Party.

            The comments are a startling turn for the Proud Boys, which for years had backed Mr. Trump and promoted political violence.



            It is remarkable, given their devotion to Trump just after the election, how quickly this group has turned on him. It appears from a later section of the article that since the storming of the Capitol in which Proud Boy members were involved "discontent with Mr. Trump, who later condemned the violence, has boiled over. On social media, Proud Boys participants have complained about his willingness to leave office and said his disavowal of the Capitol rampage was an act of betrayal."

            Surely they realised he was trying to save himself?

            They are also angry that he "did nothing to help those in the group who face legal action for the Capitol violence. On Wednesday, a Proud Boy leader, Joseph Biggs, 37, was arrested in Florida and charged with unlawful entry and corruptly obstructing an official proceeding in the riot. At least four other members of the group also face charges stemming from the attack." They obviously did not have the right contacts to go about seeking pardons for them. Or perhaps they were just not wealthy enough to pay the bribe.

            The article ends "They thought they had his support and that, ultimately, Trump would come through for them, including with a pardon if they should need it,” said Jared Holt, a visiting research fellow at the Atlantic Council’s DFR Lab. “Now they realize they went too far in the riots.

            How naive are these people? Did they really expect a man of Trump's character [a narcissist and coward] to really stand by them? How many more are going to slowly come to the realisation that the man in whom they placed such hope and faith was only in it for himself, his family, and his cronies?

            Trae Crowder summed it up rather well in one of his Youtube comments last year, which despite the very strong language is absolutely on target.


            You realize that after every election loss, the losing part goes through infighting, right? The democrats did it when they lost to Trump, when they lost to Bush.

            Honestly, asking this type of question is about as stupid as predicting that the losing party is "over", "finished", or "Dead".

            But then again people who make such posts are generally trolling anyways....

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

              You realize that after every election loss, the losing part goes through infighting, right? The democrats did it when they lost to Trump, when they lost to Bush.

              Honestly, asking this type of question is about as stupid as predicting that the losing party is "over", "finished", or "Dead".

              But then again people who make such posts are generally trolling anyways....

              The thread title was intended to be light hearted, "really you are very dull!'.

              .
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


                The thread title was intended to be light hearted, "really you are very dull!'.

                .
                Ah, the old "I got called out so I'll say I was only joking" defense.

                As per the standard you use on others, we can only go by what your write. You should be more clear.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  It's interesting looking down that page, and looking at who did the killing.

                  By my tally, from that page, of the killings where we know the perpetrators, the perpetrators' affiliations were:

                  Right-wingers: 8
                  Police: 3
                  Neutral 3rd parties: 3
                  Left-wingers: 2

                  It's interesting that despite year-long protests by left-wing and BLM groups, when causalities did occur, left-wingers were the least likely to be the ones inflicting them. I was somewhat surprised to see that police were not particularly likely to be ones who fired the deadly shots in these incidents either.

                  Even after all the reports I've read about right-wing violence and domestic terrorism being a huge problem in America, I was still somehow surprised to see that right-wingers killed as many people as the other 3 groups combined in those 2020 protests.

                  So when you speak of the protests being violent and people being killed, it's very much worth noting that it was very much right-wingers, and not left-wingers, who did the killings.
                  That is BS, I just re-read the piece where do you get eight right wingers? And the fact that the left is still causing destruction:

                  https://www.foxnews.com/us/left-wing...n-inauguration
                  Last edited by seer; 01-24-2021, 09:56 AM.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                    Ah, the old "I got called out so I'll say I was only joking" defense.

                    As per the standard you use on others, we can only go by what your write. You should be more clear.
                    If you are "looking for a fight" kindly go elsewhere.

                    Nor do I even understand why you bothered to make your comments at post #65. It is almost as if you have suddenly noticed the thread.
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      If you are "looking for a fight" kindly go elsewhere.

                      Nor do I even understand why you bothered to make your comments at post #65. It is almost as if you have suddenly noticed the thread.
                      No fight. Just pointing out that your post is rather pointless. Just as the "the Xparty is finished. They'll never recover!" posts often seen after an election. It was you who responded with an "i was only joking" style response. Instead of addressing any of my actual points.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                        No fight. Just pointing out that your post is rather pointless. Just as the "the Xparty is finished. They'll never recover!" posts often seen after an election. It was you who responded with an "i was only joking" style response. Instead of addressing any of my actual points.
                        As I did not write in the OP that I considered either Trump or the Republican Party to be "finished" I am at a loss to understand why you have written the above.

                        The OP was about a neo-fascist group falling out of love with Trump and I made a later post linked to Politico that covered the various lunatic ideas including the suggestion [as in the Nicholas Cage and John Travolta 1997 movie] that Trump and Biden had switched faces, and the internal wrangling among the QAnon cult that supports Trump.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          As I did not write in the OP that I considered either Trump or the Republican Party to be "finished" I am at a loss to understand why you have written the above.

                          The OP was about a neo-fascist group falling out of love with Trump and I made a later post linked to Politico that covered the various lunatic ideas including the suggestion [as in the Nicholas Cage and John Travolta 1997 movie] that Trump and Biden had switched faces, and the internal wrangling among the QAnon cult that supports Trump.
                          Back to the "I can't understand" concept?

                          Go back to what I wrote, it'll be clear what and why I wrote it.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                            Back to the "I can't understand" concept?
                            I understood you quite clearly. I did not understand why you wrote what you did given that I had never written in my OP that I considered either Trump or the Republican Party to be "finished" .

                            Your comments pertaining to political "post mortems" for losing parties after an election, were not pertinent to my remarks about the neo-fascist and lunatic fringe elements of Trump's supporters.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              I understood you quite clearly. I did not understand why you wrote what you did given that I had never written in my OP that I considered either Trump or the Republican Party to be "finished" .

                              Your comments pertaining to political "post mortems" for losing parties after an election, were not pertinent to my remarks about the neo-fascist and lunatic fringe elements of Trump's supporters.
                              clearly you didnt understand him quite clearly.especially given he never stated or implied you said that. Take his advice.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                More of the Great Falling Away?

                                Antifa took to the streets of Tacoma Sunday night and began smashing windows of businesses, cars, and government buildings, according to multiple tweets posted online. Antifa planned the protest for 9 p.m. Sunday after a Tacoma police officer injured two people while driving his police SUV through a crowd of people gathered at a street racing event, Breitbart News reported.

                                https://www.breitbart.com/law-and-or...ma-washington/

                                More details are needed here: the reason the officer drove through the crowd is because they deliberately surrounded his vehicle and started beating on it. Pushing through them was the only means he had to save his life.

                                ​​​​​​Do you think Bumbling Biden could spare a few National Guard troops to deal with a real emergency, or will he keep them in Washington DC where they do nothing but make his little tyrannical heart happy?
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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