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Is this the first sign of "The Great Falling Away"?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/20/technology/proud-boys-trump.html

    ‘A Total Failure’: The Proud Boys Now Mock Trump

    Members of the far-right group, who were among Donald Trump’s staunchest fans, are calling him “weak” as more of them were charged for storming the U.S. Capitol.

    After the presidential election last year, the Proud Boys, a far-right group, declared its undying loyalty to President Trump.

    In a Nov. 8 post in a private channel of the messaging app Telegram, the group urged its followers to attend protests against an election that it said had been fraudulently stolen from Mr. Trump. “Hail Emperor Trump,” the Proud Boys wrote.

    But by this week, the group’s attitude toward Mr. Trump had changed. “Trump will go down as a total failure,” the Proud Boys said in the same Telegram channel on Monday.

    As Mr. Trump departed the White House on Wednesday, the Proud Boys, once among his staunchest supporters, have also started leaving his side. In dozens of conversations on social media sites like Gab and Telegram, members of the group have begun calling Mr. Trump a “shill” and “extraordinarily weak,” according to messages reviewed by The New York Times. They have also urged supporters to stop attending rallies and protests held for Mr. Trump or the Republican Party.

    The comments are a startling turn for the Proud Boys, which for years had backed Mr. Trump and promoted political violence.



    It is remarkable, given their devotion to Trump just after the election, how quickly this group has turned on him. It appears from a later section of the article that since the storming of the Capitol in which Proud Boy members were involved "discontent with Mr. Trump, who later condemned the violence, has boiled over. On social media, Proud Boys participants have complained about his willingness to leave office and said his disavowal of the Capitol rampage was an act of betrayal."

    Surely they realised he was trying to save himself?

    They are also angry that he "did nothing to help those in the group who face legal action for the Capitol violence. On Wednesday, a Proud Boy leader, Joseph Biggs, 37, was arrested in Florida and charged with unlawful entry and corruptly obstructing an official proceeding in the riot. At least four other members of the group also face charges stemming from the attack." They obviously did not have the right contacts to go about seeking pardons for them. Or perhaps they were just not wealthy enough to pay the bribe.

    The article ends "They thought they had his support and that, ultimately, Trump would come through for them, including with a pardon if they should need it,” said Jared Holt, a visiting research fellow at the Atlantic Council’s DFR Lab. “Now they realize they went too far in the riots.

    How naive are these people? Did they really expect a man of Trump's character [a narcissist and coward] to really stand by them? How many more are going to slowly come to the realisation that the man in whom they placed such hope and faith was only in it for himself, his family, and his cronies?

    Trae Crowder summed it up rather well in one of his Youtube comments last year, which despite the very strong language is absolutely on target.


    The Proud Boys made up a small percentage of the insurrectionists on Jan 6, and they are a small percentage of Trumpists.

    What is more significant is the reaction of the other Trump supporters who showed up on Jan 6, broke into the Capitol and gleefully posted selfies and videos of themselves rifling through desks, chanting threats or confronting police only to now find themselves under criminal investigation. They seem stunned that what they did is wrong, since they thought they were simply following directives from the Commander in Chief. Disillusionment is setting in, especially as Trump has tried to distance himself, and this helps explain the lack of enthusiasm for demonstrations on Inauguration Day.

    As for the polls, the general public has a very low opinion of Trump, although his popularity remains sky high among Republicans. Membership in the GOP is on the decline, so the group of actual Trump supporters in America is small and will be shrinking further as investigations on Trump ramp up.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by kccd View Post

      Membership in the GOP is on the decline, so the group of actual Trump supporters in America is small and will be shrinking further as investigations on Trump ramp up.
      So 75 million voters is small? The fact is the Republican party will become, and is becoming, a populace party.
      Last edited by seer; 01-21-2021, 10:50 AM.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #18
        Two years is an eternity in politics - Biden started off his run by calling for peace, but poking his thumb in the eye of every conservative.

        It will be interesting to see if a revenge election is in the works.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by kccd View Post
          ...this helps explain the lack of enthusiasm for demonstrations on Inauguration Day.
          Or perhaps it's the fact that the city was locked down by a massive occupying military force to the point that not even Joe's own supporters bothered to show up for his phony swearing in ceremony.

          Meanwhile, liberals are rioting and destroying their own communities while scrawling anti-Biden graffiti on the sides of buildings and chanting "We don't want Biden, we want revenge!"

          Is this the first sign of "The Great Falling Away"?
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by seer View Post

            So 75 million voters is small? The fact is the Republican party will become, and is becoming, a populace party.
            A populace party? You mean the party that opposes a decent minimum wage, universal healthcare, and safe workplace conditions. And gives tax breaks to the very rich and allows companies to pollute and wants to cut social security and medicare and medicaid? What kind of "populace party" is that?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              Or perhaps it's the fact that the city was locked down by a massive occupying military force to the point that not even Joe's own supporters bothered to show up for his phony swearing in ceremony.

              Meanwhile, liberals are rioting and destroying their own communities while scrawling anti-Biden graffiti on the sides of buildings and chanting "We don't want Biden, we want revenge!"

              Is this the first sign of "The Great Falling Away"?
              We had a right wing insurrection that attacked the Capitol exactly 2 weeks before the inaugurations, so yes, drastic safety measures were necessary.

              The inauguration was beautifully done, and was not in any way phony. Biden is most definitely POTUS.

              In the meantime, the insurrectionists are being rounded up for prosecution.

              Yes, there have been some other demonstrations with graffiti (horrors!), but nothing to compare with what happened on Jan 6, which was an attack on the seat of US democracy.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by kccd View Post

                A populace party? You mean the party that opposes a decent minimum wage, universal healthcare, and safe workplace conditions. And gives tax breaks to the very rich and allows companies to pollute and wants to cut social security and medicare and medicaid? What kind of "populace party" is that?
                No, I mean a party that cares about the working class. Biden has already destroyed 8,000 union jobs by killing Key Stone. He will destroy more with the Green new deal.
                Last edited by seer; 01-21-2021, 02:56 PM.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by seer View Post

                  No, I mean a party that care about the working class. Biden has already destroyed 8,000 union jobs by killing Key Stone. He will destroy more with the Green new deal.
                  No, no, no, you got that all wrong... he's going to ADD jobs by killing jobs, and clean up the planet by going to things like battery, which greatly pollute and ravage the world's resources, and make poor people prosperous by stealing money from really rich people who, evidently, are too freakin stupid not to know how to get out of taxes, and....

                  .... lemme do some more work on this.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by kccd View Post

                    We had a right wing insurrection that attacked the Capitol exactly 2 weeks before the inaugurations, so yes, drastic safety measures were necessary.
                    We've had left wing insurrectionists looting and burning their own cities for over a year, and yet when President Trump sent in National Guard troops to keep the peace, Democrats whooped and hollered about what a tyrant he was. Of course now they have completely changed their tune at the disproportionate military presence for China Joe's clown-show of an inaguration.

                    Approximately 25,000 thousand National Guard members were in Washington, D.C. this week, in addition to thousands of police and other law enforcement officers; metro stations were shut down; checkpoints were set up; and fences erected.

                    It was a level of militarization that “no living American has seen” before, and one Fox News’s Tucker Carlson said Democrats are using as a clear political weapon.

                    What's the media's reaction? According to liberal journalist Michael Tracey, they're “cheering it on." They aren’t asking tough questions about the military occupation of the city and they aren’t looking into why it may be necessary or not. The media can point to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, but he argues “everyone with a brain by now should be able to recognize that the government was never at a greater than 0% risk of being overthrown that day.”

                    When National Guard forces were deployed over the summer in cities across the U.S. amid months of riots, destruction, looting, and mayhem, the same outlets were aghast, viewing the military personnel’s presence “as the rawest incarnation of violent fascism.”

                    “Suddenly though, this unprecedented militarization of DC is greeted by the same media hive-mind as the triumph of good over evil, light over darkness,” he added. “It’s almost like the ultimate variable is not principled apprehension about the force of the state, but whose political priorities are being defended by such force — and who is being punished.”

                    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahba...-oped-n2583435
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seer View Post

                      No, I mean a party that cares about the working class. Biden has already destroyed 8,000 union jobs by killing Key Stone. He will destroy more with the Green new deal.
                      The working class does not benefit from jobs that last for 2 years, while the environment suffers.

                      Job growth in alternative energy is outpacing growth in the fossil fuel industry, and the payscale is high.

                      The renewable energy industry has become a major U.S. employer. E2’s recent Clean Jobs America report found nearly 3.3 million Americans working in clean energy – outnumbering fossil fuel workers by 3-to-1.

                      Clean energy jobs offer higher wages than the national average, and are widely available to workers without college degrees, according to new Brookings Institution research. Landing a clean energy job can equal an 8%-19% increase in income, and 45% of all workers in clean energy production (e.g. electricians, installers, repairers, and power plant operators) have only a high school diploma, while still receiving higher wages than similarly educated peers in other industries.
                      https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyi...h=32ff623f3665

                      The working class cares about wages and benefits, and it is the Dems pushing for a higher minimum wage, expanded access to healthcare, paid holidays and sick leave, parental leave, family leave, and workplace safety. Republicans object to every single one of those things.

                      And note, that during the Trump administration, when Labor Day came around, they celebrated the bosses, not the workers.

                      Now, explain to me again, given the above, why you think it is the Republicans that seek to help workers?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        We've had left wing insurrectionists looting and burning their own cities for over a year, and yet when President Trump sent in National Guard troops to keep the peace, Democrats whooped and hollered about what a tyrant he was. Of course now they have completely changed their tune at the disproportionate military presence for China Joe's clown-show of an inaguration.

                        Approximately 25,000 thousand National Guard members were in Washington, D.C. this week, in addition to thousands of police and other law enforcement officers; metro stations were shut down; checkpoints were set up; and fences erected.

                        It was a level of militarization that “no living American has seen” before, and one Fox News’s Tucker Carlson said Democrats are using as a clear political weapon.

                        What's the media's reaction? According to liberal journalist Michael Tracey, they're “cheering it on." They aren’t asking tough questions about the military occupation of the city and they aren’t looking into why it may be necessary or not. The media can point to the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, but he argues “everyone with a brain by now should be able to recognize that the government was never at a greater than 0% risk of being overthrown that day.”

                        When National Guard forces were deployed over the summer in cities across the U.S. amid months of riots, destruction, looting, and mayhem, the same outlets were aghast, viewing the military personnel’s presence “as the rawest incarnation of violent fascism.”

                        “Suddenly though, this unprecedented militarization of DC is greeted by the same media hive-mind as the triumph of good over evil, light over darkness,” he added. “It’s almost like the ultimate variable is not principled apprehension about the force of the state, but whose political priorities are being defended by such force — and who is being punished.”

                        https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahba...-oped-n2583435
                        There was certainly some looting and property destruction linked to those demonstrations, but most of those demonstrations were peaceful. The portrayal of those demonstrations as entirely destructive is a right wing falsehood.

                        How can you possibly justify the use of military with no identifying badges using tear gas and rubber bullets to clear Lafayette Park of peaceful demonstrators so Trump could walk to the church for a photo op?

                        The goal of those demonstrations was and is social justice. Compare that to the goal of that Jan 6 insurrection - breaking into our main seat of government and disrupting an important step in the ceremonial transfer of power. And this was accompanied by threats against specific lawmakers by insurgents carrying weapons, nooses, zipties, etc. They carried the Confederate flag while attacking our seat of govt. The left has done nothing on that scale.

                        It has been clear for years that the major terrorism threat against the USA comes from the right wing. There is a whole series of mass murders, bombings or attempted bombings, attempted kidnappings, etc. all from the right. Nothing remotely like that from the left. We have nothing like the Q-Anon craziness or the Turner Diaries or Trump rallies with deranged chants of "lock her up" or "fire Fauci" or that whole "Enemy of the people" meme directed against the press (protected by the first amendment).

                        The right needs to get their own house in order before criticizing the political opposition. And check the facts before making accusations.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by kccd View Post

                          There was certainly some looting and property destruction linked to those demonstrations, but most of those demonstrations were peaceful. The portrayal of those demonstrations as entirely destructive is a right wing falsehood.

                          How can you possibly justify the use of military with no identifying badges using tear gas and rubber bullets to clear Lafayette Park of peaceful demonstrators so Trump could walk to the church for a photo op?

                          The goal of those demonstrations was and is social justice. Compare that to the goal of that Jan 6 insurrection - breaking into our main seat of government and disrupting an important step in the ceremonial transfer of power. And this was accompanied by threats against specific lawmakers by insurgents carrying weapons, nooses, zipties, etc. They carried the Confederate flag while attacking our seat of govt. The left has done nothing on that scale.

                          It has been clear for years that the major terrorism threat against the USA comes from the right wing. There is a whole series of mass murders, bombings or attempted bombings, attempted kidnappings, etc. all from the right. Nothing remotely like that from the left. We have nothing like the Q-Anon craziness or the Turner Diaries or Trump rallies with deranged chants of "lock her up" or "fire Fauci" or that whole "Enemy of the people" meme directed against the press (protected by the first amendment).

                          The right needs to get their own house in order before criticizing the political opposition. And check the facts before making accusations.
                          I'm honestly at a loss how to respond to this level of ignorance and delusion. To claim that the Antifa and Black Lives Matter hoodlums who took over dozens of square blocks and all but leveled their communities with their destructive riots were "mostly peaceful" is so far removed from reality that any sort of attempt at a rational response would be wasted.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                            I'm honestly at a loss how to respond to this level of ignorance and delusion. To claim that the Antifa and Black Lives Matter hoodlums who took over dozens of square blocks and all but leveled their communities with their destructive riots were "mostly peaceful" is so far removed from reality that any sort of attempt at a rational response would be wasted.
                            The point being made is that not all the demonstrations were violent and destructive. However, certain sections of the media liked to concentrate only on the ones that were, thereby giving a distorted impression to their viewers, many of whom would not have sought to cross check the veracity of the information with which they were being presented.
                            Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 01-22-2021, 06:39 AM.
                            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              The point being made is that not all the demonstrations were violent and destructive. However, certain sections of the media liked to concentrate only on the ones that were, thereby giving a distorted impression to their viewers, many of whom would not have sought to cross check the veracity of the information with which they were being presented.
                              I assume you're referring to January 6 protest on Capitol Hill.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                                I assume you're referring to January 6 protest on Capitol Hill.
                                People died at the Jan 6 protest.

                                Some of the social justice demonstrations destroyed property, and people died at some of those rallies, but the ones who died were protestors killed by right wing counterprotestors like Kyle Rittenhouse and the driver at Charlottesville.

                                The attack on Jan 6 was an insurrection against the seat of government of the USA with the intent to disrupt and even reverse the results of an election.

                                Comment

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