Caravan

[Ronson]

nt

[Sparko]

The caravan is now officially broken up and dispersing here where I live, now it's us (Guatemalans) stuck with a sudden surplus of 5,000-9,000 some folks with no where to go. And for the record I also consider it a foolhardy solution knowing well that even if they make it the U.S. border, that will be the end of it.





To actually apply the Refugee Law inscribed within U.S. Law without exception, and fulfill the covenant of Article 31 of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees: non-penalization, detention, and protection, actually stop skirting around international obligations that they ascribed to many decades ago when it comes to their Latin neighbors.


And for the record, I am not proposing "open the border" or some flippant nonsense like that, and even less so in the current pandemic. At this stage of our times, regulations of migration by States can't be done away, even the most lax regulations. It's a question on how best to apply them whilst fulfilling international treaties and obligations.

The US does let in refugees, but refugees have to meet certain criteria to be refugees. Trying to enter the US for economic reasons doesn't meet those criteria, which is why most are being turned away.

[Starlight]

The democrats are the one's feeding us the propaganda.

Did Faux News tell you to believe that?

[Ronson]

It's nice to see libertarians taking ownership of that.

Some do - I don't. There is no advantage for the U.S. to have open borders.

All too often I've seen the MSM asking Bernie about how he's going to implement open borders as part of his alleged Socialist Agenda, and he gets sick of explaining to them that leftists don't support open borders and that it's a Koch brothers / libertarian position.

I think open borders is a crazy idea. I'm relatively conservative on immigration (which, in my country is the typical leftist position, while the right-wing parties favor higher immigration for the sake of what they perceive to be economic benefits).

Agreed, it is a crazy idea. Immigration is something that needs to be controlled, or else we'll need to eliminate the million social programs that draw them and aren't supported through enough taxes..

If there were open borders everywhere, Western countries all over the world would be quickly flooded with immigrants to unmanageable levels. Looking at some of the pew & gallup international polling results as to which countries people around the world would move to if there was universal open borders, I see my own country would be one of the hardest hit per capita, with a whooping 400% population increase from immigration (compare to the US which would only get around a 33% population increase according to the same polling). As it is, the housing market in my country is absurdly expensive because we can't seem to build new houses fast enough to accommodate all the people we are already letting in (and this in spite of the borders being fully closed to non-citizens/residents over the Covid period), so fully open borders would be absolutely absurd.

Agreed.

[Starlight]

The Dems fed that narrative.

Do you mean like when Hillary Clinton talked about selling electricity across borders, and right-wing propaganda outlets misquoted it as if she were radically coming out in support of wanting open borders for human immigration?

That's not the Dems feeding it to you, it's your "news" sources propagandizing you.

[Sparko]

Did Faux News tell you to believe that?

Nope. Biden. haven't you been listening to him?

[Cow Poke]

Nope. Biden. haven't you been listening to him?

Which time? Which version?

[rogue06]

Did Faux News tell you to believe that?

Uh-oh. Star is here to regale us with his encyclopedic knowledge on all things American. Maybe he can tells us again how New York is really controlled by the Republicans smiley snicker.gif

[Sparko]

Uh-oh. Star is here to regale us with his encyclopedic knowledge on all things American. Maybe he can tells us again how New York is really controlled by the Republicans smiley snicker.gif

I can't wait till he tries to play the "well that's not open borders! Open borders mean that people can just stroll across at will!" card.

Biden has said he was going to remove all of Trump's regulations, including the part about having to stay in Mexico while they investigate if they qualify or not, meaning they will just let people enter the country on the promise that they will show up for a hearing. Ha.
And he has said he will instigate a plan to give citizenship to illegal immigrants over a period of 8 years. And open up the Green Card restrictions. The result is practically an open-border with no controls. I am betting that won't actually happen, but that is what he has been promising.

[rogue06]

I can't wait till he tries to play the "well that's not open borders! Open borders mean that people can just stroll across at will!" card.

Biden has said he was going to remove all of Trump's regulations, including the part about having to stay in Mexico while they investigate if they qualify or not, meaning they will just let people enter the country on the promise that they will show up for a hearing. Ha.
And he has said he will instigate a plan to give citizenship to illegal immigrants over a period of 8 years. And open up the Green Card restrictions. The result is practically an open-border with no controls. I am betting that won't actually happen, but that is what he has been promising.

Much like promises to cut federal spending if you just raise taxes just this once. Bush Sr. fell for that one much to his chagrin.

[Ronson]

Do you mean like when Hillary Clinton talked about selling electricity across borders, and right-wing propaganda outlets misquoted it as if she were radically coming out in support of wanting open borders for human immigration?

That's not the Dems feeding it to you, it's your "news" sources propagandizing you.

Every time Democrats attacked Trump on immigration - when he was simply following our current legal immigration policy - they advocated open immigration. They denounced his wall because it closed the border.

[Starlight]

I can't wait till he tries to play the "well that's not open borders! Open borders mean that people can just stroll across at will!" card.

You are saying that by open borders you don't mean open borders?

Open border

An open border is a border that enables free movement of people (and often of goods) between jurisdictions with few or no restrictions on movement, that is lacking substantive border control. A border may be an open border due to intentional legislation allowing free movement of people across the border (de jure), or a border may be an open border due to a lack of legal controls, a lack of adequate enforcement or adequate supervision of the border (de facto). An example of the former is the Schengen Agreement between most members of the European Economic Area (EFTA and the EU). An example of the latter has been the border between Bangladesh and India, which is becoming controlled... Open borders are the norm for borders between subdivisions within the boundaries of sovereign states

Maybe if you want to describe something different to that, you should use a different term?

[Faber]

But the interesting things is that our sins are removed as far as the East is from the West ---- not the North from the South, which is obviously measurable.

I had a pastor quote that one time and asked, "How far is that?" I was about to say 12,450 miles but then he said "Infinite." That was close enough for me.

[Mountain Man]

To actually apply the Refugee Law inscribed within U.S. Law without exception, and fulfill the covenant of Article 31 of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees: non-penalization, detention, and protection, actually stop skirting around international obligations that they ascribed to many decades ago when it comes to their Latin neighbors.

Provided they are legitimate refugees. A lot of immigrants who have tried to claim refugee status over the last several years have been trying to escape local crime, or get a better paying job, or were simply seeking a "better life"than what their own countries offer, but that's for their own governments to solve and doesn't qualify them for refugee protections.

[Mountain Man]

Biden has said he was going to remove all of Trump's regulations, including the part about having to stay in Mexico while they investigate if they qualify or not, meaning they will just let people enter the country on the promise that they will show up for a hearing. Ha.

That's Obama's infamous "catch and release" policy, so that he could claim they were stopping lots of people at the border all the while allowing them to lose themselves in the US.