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Franklin Graham likens Republicans voting to impeach to Christ's betrayal

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  • #46
    When did Franklin Graham start sounding like Pat Robertson?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Charles View Post
      And Rogue has an even bigger library in his archive of stuff his enemies have said that I am sure he will be happy to promote.
      It is a habit of the left to make enemies lists although Nixon was the exception to the rule.

      Originally posted by Charles View Post
      And at some point he might even convince himself that it makes the statemts Franklin Graham made less bad, that we should focus on something else, that "the others" did it too. At least he can call someone a hypocrite or something...
      Graham has been a disappointment. Not half the man his father was as this instance shows.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #48
        Getting back to the OP, it seems like many of the pastors who were "famous" in the 60's through 90's like Bill Graham, Charles Stanley, and Jerry Falwell, failed to pass their spiritual knowledge and moral behavior to their sons. Not unlike the priest Eli and his sons.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
          Getting back to the OP, it seems like many of the pastors who were "famous" in the 60's through 90's like Bill Graham, Charles Stanley, and Jerry Falwell, failed to pass their spiritual knowledge and moral behavior to their sons. Not unlike the priest Eli and his sons.
          Yes, sir - I've mentioned this before --- it's like they think it's a passing on of "our family's always been in law enforcement, so my son will be a cop" kind of thing.

          And you left out Osteen -- I personally knew his Dad, and his Dad, John, was a very standup guy - til, eventually, he got into the more charismatic stuff.

          And think of the Kings and Prophets in the OT whose offspring did not follow in their footsteps.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            Yes, sir - I've mentioned this before --- it's like they think it's a passing on of "our family's always been in law enforcement, so my son will be a cop" kind of thing.

            And you left out Osteen -- I personally knew his Dad, and his Dad, John, was a very standup guy - til, eventually, he got into the more charismatic stuff.

            And think of the Kings and Prophets in the OT whose offspring did not follow in their footsteps.
            God has no grandchildren.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              Yes, sir - I've mentioned this before --- it's like they think it's a passing on of "our family's always been in law enforcement, so my son will be a cop" kind of thing.

              And you left out Osteen -- I personally knew his Dad, and his Dad, John, was a very standup guy - til, eventually, he got into the more charismatic stuff.

              And think of the Kings and Prophets in the OT whose offspring did not follow in their footsteps.
              I never heard of John Osteen.

              As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've seen a couple local churches the father trying to pass the ministry on to the son. Neither ended well.
              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                Yes, sir - I've mentioned this before --- it's like they think it's a passing on of "our family's always been in law enforcement, so my son will be a cop" kind of thing.

                And you left out Osteen -- I personally knew his Dad, and his Dad, John, was a very standup guy - til, eventually, he got into the more charismatic stuff.

                And think of the Kings and Prophets in the OT whose offspring did not follow in their footsteps.
                And Joel went into that prosperity gospel garbage. So while I don't recall him getting into any moral scandals like Falwell Jr., his teachings are the pits.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #53
                  Competent source would help to make your case. These atrocious pictures are patently over the top ridiculous, worse than yellow journalism. These references ridicule Obama, and do not represent the Democrat view of the proesident,
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-17-2021, 08:13 PM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    You're quite right, it was indeed "the Democrats [and] not Franklin 'Gramm' who considered Obama to a Messiah."
                    No, the Democrats never considered Obama. You need to cite some competent source from Democrats and not atrocious pictures ridiculing Obama already posted.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      You're quite right, it was indeed "the Democrats [and] not Franklin 'Gramm' who considered Obama to a Messiah."
                      Oh! I forgot Franklin Graham is the Republican prophet designate along with Miz White to anoint the chosen one Messiah Donald Trump.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                        Competent source would help to make your case. These atrocious pictures are patently over the top ridiculous, worse than yellow journalism. These references ridicule Obama, and do not represent the Democrat view of the proesident,
                        They weren't meant to ridicule but were forms of adoration and veneration. As Chucky indicated I could post a whole lot more examples including more quotes like I did in post #28

                        And don't even get me started on the near deification of Obama in many quarters, where normally respected journalists were saying he is "standing above the country, above -- above the world, he’s sort of God" and "He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh" as well as frankly declaring how they thought Obama was the Messiah.


                        And the bottom image that Faber posted was being sold at the Democratic National Convention in 2012, IIRC just inside the Time Warner Cable Arena where it would have needed to be approved unlike something being hawked on the sidewalk outside the building.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Oh! I forgot Franklin Graham is the Republican prophet designate along with Miz White to anoint the chosen one Messiah Donald Trump.
                          For as long as I remember all presidents have had spiritual advisors and White was Trump's, not Graham although he has been an early supporter of Trump's. Clinton even picked some like Tony Campolo and Gordon MacDonald specifically to help provide cover after the Lewinski affair.

                          Frustratingly making things up doesn't help your case and just makes you look like a fool

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            No, the Democrats never considered Obama. You need to cite some competent source from Democrats and not atrocious pictures ridiculing Obama already posted.
                            How about when Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY) went to numerous churches in his Congressional district in Harlem declaring that "God sent us Barack Obama." Michelle Obama liked to reference Scripture when talking about the Obamessiah like when she proclaimed that, "We have an amazing story to tell. This president has brought us out of the dark and into the light" (Matthew 4:16; cf. Micah 7:8). The latter has long been thought to be a messianic reference.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Returning to the OP. From Baptist News Global (according to Media Bias Fact Check they have a left of center bias):

                              Source: The blasphemy of Franklin Graham


                              According to the newspaper in his father’s hometown of Charlotte, N.C., Franklin Graham thinks the 10 Republican congressional leaders who voted to impeach President Trump were like Judas, who betrayed Jesus.

                              "The House Democrats impeached him because they hate him and want to do as much damage as they can," Graham posted on Facebook on Jan. 14. "And these 10, from (Trump’s) own party, joined in the feeding frenzy. It makes you wonder what the thirty pieces of silver were that Speaker Pelosi promised for this betrayal."

                              Of course, the 30 pieces of silver is a reference to the money Jesus' enemies paid to his disciple Judas Iscariot as a reward for betraying where Jesus could be found and arrested far from the masses of his adoring followers (See Matthew 26:15). To suggest that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is somehow equivalent to the Jewish chief priest is itself bad hermeneutics, for it implies that rather than holding President Trump accountable for his sedition against the United States and his attack on democracy by inciting a riot, she is plotting to get rid of him because she is jealous of his popularity or fearful of losing her own prominence.

                              Additionally, this false equivalency denigrates the character of 10 conscientious Republican legislators who courageously took a stand against lawlessness in our country, despite great personal and political risk. To speak of a "feeding frenzy" and insinuate they received a payoff is nothing but a cheap shot.

                              On the other hand, Graham’s inference that Donald Trump is comparable to Jesus by asserting a parallel between the 10 Republicans and Judas is ludicrous at best and, at the worst, is sheer blasphemy.

                              Graham is comparing a man who has done everything he can to hold on to his position of enormous power with one who rejected the temptation of an earthly kingdom and crown. It is associating one who, refusing to admit defeat, instructed his supporters to "fight like hell," with the man who, when threatened with death, told his followers to put down their swords. It is falsely declaring a correspondence between two radically different passions — the love of power and the power of love.

                              There are noted examples of traitors in American history that Graham might have chosen had he simply wanted to emphasize what he deemed the betrayal of the president by those he considered to be Republican "turncoats." Benedict Arnold. Alger Hiss. Tokyo Rose. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. But he was not content to couch their vote in the House in a political context. That would not adequately engage and enrage the thousands of white Christians who follow Graham. So, he likened them to Judas and thereby blasphemously equated Donald Trump with Jesus -- likening a demagogue to the one Christians see as divine.

                              Franklin Graham has been one of Trump’s most faithful supporters. As recently as mid-December, he thanked God for 45 and claimed he would be remembered as one of America’s great presidents. Graham’s well-publicized national prayer tours and public endorsements of Trump for the past five years have helped to secure loyalty for the president among white evangelicals. Persuaded by his own rhetoric, he has ignored and excused Trump’s moral failings.

                              Responding to the controversial editorial of Christianity Today’s now-retired editor-in-chief, Mark Galli, which criticized Trump for his "profoundly immoral" actions, Graham tried to pardon his dismissal of the president’s words and actions by seeking cover under the name and reputation of his nationally beloved late father, Billy Graham. The younger Graham claimed: "My father knew Donald Trump, he believed in Donald Trump, and he voted for Donald Trump. He believed that Donald J. Trump was the man for this hour in history for our nation."

                              Regardless of how Donald Trump may have impressed Billy Graham -- a man in failing health in his late 90s -- one cannot imagine that the elder Graham would draw such a direct parallel between Jesus, whom he considered to be the divine Savior of humankind, with any politician or temporal "king." For one thing, after the debacle involving Richard Nixon, Graham was publicly contrite and admitted that he regretted his decades-long involvement in politics and his blind loyalty to politicians. Furthermore, the message he preached was unchanging: that salvation is found in Jesus alone.

                              Yet, Graham’s son, Franklin, has allowed his allegiance to a politician, and a very flawed one, to threaten his "first loyalty" to Jesus as the Lord of his life. This son of a famous father -- as I have previously asserted -- is like an apple that has fallen far from the tree.

                              Blasphemy has been judged a major offense by the Abrahamic religions. In the Old Testament book of Leviticus, to blaspheme the name of the Lord was a capital offense (24:13), punishable by stoning. According to an online encyclopedia, "the Quran curses those who commit blasphemy (against the Prophet) and promises blasphemers humiliation in the hereafter." Thus, despite the fact that Muslims do not view Mohammad as divine and that there is strong disagreement in Islamic jurisprudence about punishment for blasphemy in this life, there nonetheless have been famous fatwas, or formal rulings, announced calling for the death of those who have spoken or written blasphemous opinions of the prophet. Even in Christian tradition, the "unpardonable sin" is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29), what is sometimes explained as attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the devil.

                              So, what should one make of Franklin Graham’s analogous, but blasphemous, comparison of Donald Trump with Jesus Christ? Certainly, he must not be stoned to death, for he is our Christian brother and Jesus favored forgiveness over stoning (John 8:1-11).

                              No fatwa should be declared against him, for we do not have the status or authority to formalize such a declaration of capital punishment. Moreover, it is not our place to judge whether his words were sin, and if they may or may not be unforgivable, for we are not God.

                              Yet, his statement about the 10 Republican leaders who voted their principles was unwise, unkind and un-Christian. It purported to know the hearts and minds of those members of the House and to understand their motives. It drew upon his popularity and religious stature in order to validate his opinion. Worst of all, it contrived to solidify loyalty to Donald Trump by associating him in readers’ minds with Jesus.

                              It’s hard to predict if any consequences will be leveled against Graham for his blasphemous bluster. But the statement should not be ignored. There should be some reaction by evangelicals and other Christians who were embarrassed and incensed by this caustic declaration.



                              Source

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              [*All boldening is in the original*]

                              I'll note that citing what the qur'an has to say is irrelevant (the author is a big time supporter of Interfaith Movement and it shows here), but his remark about picking traitors from American history rather than Judas was spot on

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                                I never heard of John Osteen.

                                As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've seen a couple local churches the father trying to pass the ministry on to the son. Neither ended well.
                                I'm actually trying to think of an exception.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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