Pence Parts with Trump

[whag]

Before the capitol riot, Pence would have joined Trump's boycott of the inauguration. That Pence is attending is a huge statement from Trump's most loyal supporter.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...h-trump-458509

Vilifying Pence was one of Trump's worst mistakes. I still can hardly believe he went that far.

[Cow Poke]

Pence is an honorable man - loyal to a fault. But, quite obviously, there's a limit.

[kccd]

Before the capitol riot, Pence would have joined Trump's boycott of the inauguration. That Pence is attending is a huge statement from Trump's most loyal supporter.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...h-trump-458509

Vilifying Pence was one of Trump's worst mistakes. I still can hardly believe he went that far.

Some of those rioters were looking for Pence, and not to shake his hand. Turns out he had a pretty close call as he was within 100 feet of those people. And his wife and daughter were there as well.

Pence has now called Kamala Harris to congratulate her on her win. This is something generally done the day after the election, but better late than never, I guess.

Pence does not have a political future.

[whag]

Some of those rioters were looking for Pence, and not to shake his hand. Turns out he had a pretty close call as he was within 100 feet of those people. And his wife and daughter were there as well.

Pence has now called Kamala Harris to congratulate her on her win. This is something generally done the day after the election, but better late than never, I guess.

The distancing continues. Trump turned it into a Royal Family drama. What a putz.

Pence does not have a political future.

Trump sealed the deal on that.

[Cow Poke]

There's definitely a psychology of being "number 2" in any situation. In seminary, we had a whole class on that - being the assistant pastor, or second in command.
There is the need to be loyal - the old adage is "the congregation needs to see no daylight between the pastor and the second" guy, and will often try to drive a wedge.

A few of the complexities - how long do you remain loyal when the 'number 1' starts going off the rails?

Same applies on Navy ships, where there's more containment than on a military base, and the XO needs to appear totally loyal to the Captain, even when they disagree.
But, at what point does the XO decide he can no longer play that game.

I feel for Pence - I believe he's an honorable man who has acted honorably through tough times, but finally came to a point where he had to separate himself from Trump.

[whag]

There's definitely a psychology of being "number 2" in any situation. In seminary, we had a whole class on that - being the assistant pastor, or second in command.
There is the need to be loyal - the old adage is "the congregation needs to see no daylight between the pastor and the second" guy, and will often try to drive a wedge.

A few of the complexities - how long do you remain loyal when the 'number 1' starts going off the rails?

Same applies on Navy ships, where there's more containment than on a military base, and the XO needs to appear totally loyal to the Captain, even when they disagree.
But, at what point does the XO decide he can no longer play that game.

Maybe social hierarchy and obeisance to authority was never meant to succeed being so mired in survival instinct, the most primitive drive.

I feel for Pence - I believe he's an honorable man who has acted honorably through tough times, but finally came to a point where he had to separate himself from Trump.

I do, too. It's gotta sting Pence more that Trump consistently validated his administration's dumbest and shrillest critics. Trump put his most loyal supporters through needless pain and effort in defense of him, when most of them just wanted a normal administration that advanced GOP to the next election cycle.

I see Trump from the perspective of a moderate Republican, not one of his flag-waving sycophants. Trump had the keys to the kingdom and lost them through stupidity and ego, sitting the bar higher than even Nixon and Clinton. I can't imagine I'm the only one with that perspective.

[Starlight]

For those that aren't aware, the Trump supports who stormed the capital building were chanting "Hang Mike Pence!" at one point. Video here.

For the followers of a President to be actively storming the capital wanting to hang the Vice President of that President's party whom that President chose is pretty surreal. There's a video here of clips of speeches of Trump that led them to that moment.

Mob.JPG


I'm trying to think of what other moments in history around the world where a President incited his followers to want to kill his own Vice President, and drawing a blank. The closest I can come is the Night of the Long Knives where Hitler got some of his followers to murder all the people in his party that he didn't like or thought might be insufficiently loyal.

[Cow Poke]

I see Trump from the perspective of a moderate Republican,....

Wait, let's clear this up.... you're not claiming to be a "moderate Republican", but pretending to see this through the eyes of one, am I right?

[whag]

Wait, let's clear this up.... you're not claiming to be a "moderate Republican", but pretending to see this through the eyes of one, am I right?

Yes, I share no allegiance with a political party but I can imagine how a moderate democrat or a libertarian might feel on things.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, I share no allegiance with a political party but I can imagine how a moderate democrat or a libertarian might feel on things.

I think the biggest problem is that there are very few of either - especially in office in DC.

[Cow Poke]

I think the biggest problem is that there are very few of either - especially in office in DC.

And, by the way - I have this nasty habit of asking questions instead of jumping to conclusions --- which gets me in trouble sometimes, because some people see that as a personal attack.

[whag]

And, by the way - I have this nasty habit of asking questions instead of jumping to conclusions --- which gets me in trouble sometimes, because some people see that as a personal attack.

I didn't take it as an attack. =) I've seen your attacks and they're never personal.

But I will allot you one "your mom" joke in good faith.

[Cow Poke]

I didn't take it as an attack. =) I've seen your attacks and they're never personal.

But I will allot you one "your mom" joke in good faith.

At least quote me correctly --- it's YOMOMMA!!!