Thoughts on Senate Impeachment Trial

[CivilDiscourse]

Trump is out of office this month, one way or another. Likely, he'll be out of office before the trial even starts. Not a fan, so I really don't care if he's barred from ever holding office again.

My thoughts though are this.

Trump managed to give democrats a gigantic gift with the capitol riots, whether he meant to or not. He's given them cover to pass a number of power grabs for themselves with the defense of "or you'll let the terrorists win". Unfortunately, that cover, and the political capitol that comes with it are fairly short lived. They have a short window to capitalize on Trump's blunder before cooler heads prevail.

So, ironically, the best bet for the republicans will be to drag this out. Demand that the entire impeachment process was rushed, and that Trump has to have time to present a defense. The senate rules prevent it from moving forward with other business until the trial is completed, and extending the trial forces them to lose time and capital. More importantly, they can simply run out the clock on the use of this event as cover for other stuff. By the time the trial is over, people will be so sick of "get trump" being the congressional dem agenda, that they'll have a harder time expending the capital to do other authoritarian stuff like packing the courts.

[Cow Poke]

I have noted many times that the Republicans seem especially gifted at pulling defeat from the jaws of victory.

I have given up trying to predict or even guess what they'll do next.

[CivilDiscourse]

Biden is now worried that the impeachment will interfere with his first 100 days in office.

Apparently, there's some talk about delaying the submission until those are over, which would clash with the "we gotta hurry and get him out of office before he finishes his term in two weeks" line they initially had.

[Cow Poke]

Biden is now worried that the impeachment will interfere with his first 100 days in office.

Apparently, there's some talk about delaying the submission until those are over, which would clash with the "we gotta hurry and get him out of office before he finishes his term in two weeks" line they initially had.

The Dems are proving they don't give a flying flip about decorum, order, or due process --- they're just a vindictive vengeful lot who want to wield their power.

[rogue06]

Biden is now worried that the impeachment will interfere with his first 100 days in office.

Apparently, there's some talk about delaying the submission until those are over, which would clash with the "we gotta hurry and get him out of office before he finishes his term in two weeks" line they initially had.

Let's impeach him after he's left office so that we can remove him from office

Reminds me of how in the Middle Ages they used to exhume the body of someone long after they had died in order to try them.

[kccd]

Trump is out of office this month, one way or another. Likely, he'll be out of office before the trial even starts. Not a fan, so I really don't care if he's barred from ever holding office again.

My thoughts though are this.

Trump managed to give democrats a gigantic gift with the capitol riots, whether he meant to or not. He's given them cover to pass a number of power grabs for themselves with the defense of "or you'll let the terrorists win". Unfortunately, that cover, and the political capitol that comes with it are fairly short lived. They have a short window to capitalize on Trump's blunder before cooler heads prevail.

So, ironically, the best bet for the republicans will be to drag this out. Demand that the entire impeachment process was rushed, and that Trump has to have time to present a defense. The senate rules prevent it from moving forward with other business until the trial is completed, and extending the trial forces them to lose time and capital. More importantly, they can simply run out the clock on the use of this event as cover for other stuff. By the time the trial is over, people will be so sick of "get trump" being the congressional dem agenda, that they'll have a harder time expending the capital to do other authoritarian stuff like packing the courts.

An impeachment trial is too much for "people" to bear, but 10 Benghazi hearings were not enough for those same "people"?

The point of the impeachment was not to get him out of office a week before he would leave anyway, but to show Trump, the country and the world, that there are serious consequences for inciting an insurrection against the USA.

The trial should happen, and should be a real trial this time, with witnesses and subpoenas if necessary. One clear purpose would be to lay out clearly what the charges are and what the evidence is. And yes, Trump should be barred from holding office again, and should be barred from getting daily briefings.

[Starlight]

Apparently, there's some talk about delaying the submission until those are over, which would clash with the "we gotta hurry and get him out of office before he finishes his term in two weeks" line they initially had.

Well the Dems tried to hurry it, and did hurry it through in the House. Then when it got to the Senate, Senate Majority leader, Republican Mitch McConnell, said he wasn't going to call the Senate in for an emergency session to do the impeachment process.

Therefore the Senate won't be able to process the impeachment until it sits again in regular session, which is after Trump is out of office and after Biden is sworn in. At that point there's no longer any rush, and not much meaningful different between doing it then and doing it in a year's time.

So your complaint is bogus - the Dems did their best to do it fast, Republicans blocked it being fast-tracked, so now that it's not going to happen til Trump is out of office there isn't any point in rushing it.

[Mountain Man]

Let's impeach him after he's left office so that we can remove him from office

There is also the legal question of whether or not the Senate can even hold an impeachment trial for a president who is no longer in office.

[Ronson]

Trump is out of office this month, one way or another. Likely, he'll be out of office before the trial even starts. Not a fan, so I really don't care if he's barred from ever holding office again.

My thoughts though are this.

Trump managed to give democrats a gigantic gift with the capitol riots, whether he meant to or not. He's given them cover to pass a number of power grabs for themselves with the defense of "or you'll let the terrorists win". Unfortunately, that cover, and the political capitol that comes with it are fairly short lived. They have a short window to capitalize on Trump's blunder before cooler heads prevail.

So, ironically, the best bet for the republicans will be to drag this out. Demand that the entire impeachment process was rushed, and that Trump has to have time to present a defense. The senate rules prevent it from moving forward with other business until the trial is completed, and extending the trial forces them to lose time and capital. More importantly, they can simply run out the clock on the use of this event as cover for other stuff. By the time the trial is over, people will be so sick of "get trump" being the congressional dem agenda, that they'll have a harder time expending the capital to do other authoritarian stuff like packing the courts.

A waste of time and money, but that's what Congress does best.

[Mountain Man]

The trial should happen, and should be a real trial this time, with witnesses and subpoenas if necessary. One clear purpose would be to lay out clearly what the charges are and what the evidence is.

The articles of impeachment should clearly lay out the charges and evidence. If they don't, then they should be immediately rejected by the Senate. This whole idea that the House can rush through a ropey impeachment and then try to piece together an ad hoc case during the Senate trial is absurd.

[rogue06]

There is also the legal question of whether or not the Senate can even hold an impeachment trial for a president who is no longer in office.

Especially an impeachment by the House that pretty much violated every rule they had established for such a proceeding. For example, when was the defense permitted to present their case?

[rogue06]

The articles of impeachment should clearly lay out the charges and evidence. If they don't, then they should be immediately rejected by the Senate. This whole idea that the House can rush through a ropey impeachment and then try to piece together an ad hoc case during the Senate trial is absurd.

It's like they realize that buffoons like Shift is wholly incapable of doing so (as evidenced by the circus he presided over) and hope that the Senators can do the job for them that they cannot do.

[kccd]

The articles of impeachment should clearly lay out the charges and evidence. If they don't, then they should be immediately rejected by the Senate. This whole idea that the House can rush through a ropey impeachment and then try to piece together an ad hoc case during the Senate trial is absurd.

Did you not notice that 10 House Republicans voted for impeachment based on the charges?
And that it seems that multiple Senators may be on board with that?

The House has appointed highly qualified impeachment managers, headed by Jamie Raskin, a former Constitutional law professor.
It seems that Trump is having problems finding lawyers to represent him.

[Starlight]

Especially an impeachment by the House that pretty much violated every rule they had established for such a proceeding. For example, when was the defense permitted to present their case?

Eh? Impeachment by the House is equivalent to a prosecutor filing charges. The trial in which the defence gets to present their case, happens in the Senate. What makes you think that the defense should get to present their case in the House?

[rogue06]

Eh? Impeachment by the House is equivalent to a prosecutor filing charges. The trial in which the defence gets to present their case, happens in the Senate. What makes you think that the defense should get to present their case in the House?

Um, no. In it's earliest forms it tended to function like a Grand Jury, making its inquiry ex parte, but for quite some time now the accused has been allowed to testify, present witnesses, cross-examine witnesses, and be represented by counsel. The accused doesn't have full due process but it does have some.