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Allegations of Capitol ‘reconnaissance’ tours

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  • Allegations of Capitol ‘reconnaissance’ tours

    Any body else thinking that we may be seeing the resignation of one or more Representative?
    More than 30 House Democrats on Wednesday requested an immediate investigation into "suspicious behavior" and access that was allegedly given to visitors at the U.S. Capitol the day before the riot.

  • #2
    Originally posted by casaba View Post
    Any body else thinking that we may be seeing the resignation of one or more Representative?
    There has already been one resignation of a state level Republican representative. Derrick Evans resigned from the West Virginia House of Delegates on Jan 9. He's been charged with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, and one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. His defense thus far is that he participated in the riots as an "independent member of the media to film history," though it does not appear he has any experience working as a journalist. Like many of the rioters, he recorded and posted videos of himself participating in the riot. To put it mildly, he ain't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.

    Ali Alexander, a right wing conspiracy theorist who helped organize the riot, claims he received assistance from three GOP lawmakers: Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs of Arizona, and Mo Brooks of Alabama. It always ends badly for politicians who take part in unsuccessful coups...

    Republican Rep. Lauren Boebert of Colorado, who is closely affiliated with the Q-anon movement, is apparently being investigated for tweeting about the location of Nancy Pelosi as the riot took place.
    Last edited by Reepicheep; 01-14-2021, 07:21 AM.
    "The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." - P. J. O'Rourke

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    • #3
      Originally posted by casaba View Post
      Any body else thinking that we may be seeing the resignation of one or more Representative?
      It may be we are about to see McCarthy-esq level of over-reach.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Reepicheep View Post

        There has already been one resignation of a state level Republican representative. Derrick Evans resigned from the West Virginia House of Delegates on Jan 9. He's been charged with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, and one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. His defense thus far is that he participated in the riots as an "independent member of the media to film history," though it does not appear he has any experience working as a journalist. Like many of the rioters, he recorded and posted videos of himself participating in the riot. To put it mildly, he ain't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.

        Ali Alexander, a right wing conspiracy theorist who helped organize the riot, claims he received assistance from three GOP lawmakers: Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs of Arizona, and Mo Brooks of Alabama. It always ends badly for politicians who take part in unsuccessful coups...
        I saw a video post of Ali Alexander mentioning that planning had started with those three lawmakers. I do not know details but I could see the lawmakers claiming that they were talking about organizing peaceful protests, i.e., those which remained outside the Capitol building.

        What stands out to me in Rep. Sherrill's account is that, if true, suggests that whoever brought these visitors into the Capitol building was expecting/planning for the protesters to get into the building. I am pretty sure that an insider who helps plan a crime is an accomplice. Maybe it will turn out the visitors were guests of staffers? Or maybe guests of other employees in the building? Or maybe guests of a sitting Representative?

        It seems likely that any such visit will have to have been logged, listing both the visitor's name as well as the person(s) who hosted them. If it turns out any of these visitors were amongst those who broke in the next day, I would find it difficult for any such host to avoid resignation.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

          It may be we are about to see McCarthy-esq level of over-reach.
          Please, this is why I posted here. I am honestly curious to understand how someone may view or explain these visits.

          Instead of saying I am somehow emulating McCarthy (who I am glad to hear we both consider as an example of inappropriate over-reach), I ask you to suggest a different outcome for the scenario which I describe above (where one or more of these visitors turns out to be amongst those who broke in the next day).

          I'll reiterate the factors raised in the news story above which stand out for me: No visitors allowed since March. The number of visitors on January 5 was unusual enough that multiple people reported it to security at the time.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by casaba View Post

            Please, this is why I posted here. I am honestly curious to understand how someone may view or explain these visits.

            Instead of saying I am somehow emulating McCarthy (who I am glad to hear we both consider as an example of inappropriate over-reach), I ask you to suggest a different outcome for the scenario which I describe above (where one or more of these visitors turns out to be amongst those who broke in the next day).

            I'll reiterate the factors raised in the news story above which stand out for me: No visitors allowed since March. The number of visitors on January 5 was unusual enough that multiple people reported it to security at the time.
            You read alot into what I wrote. I never claimed you were emulating McCarthy.

            I said we may be about to see McCarthy-esq level of overreach.

            You see accusations for giving a tour (which I don't know any details on), I see others saying someone should resign because they emulated democrats and objected to electoral vote counts.

            So, about this particular accusation, I don't know the details. I do know that we are in an area where the demands for resignation/ejections are starting to rise up, and given the number of people who've adovcated for stuff like court packing, I suspect that we are likely to see over-reach for political advantage.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

              It may be we are about to see McCarthy-esq level of over-reach.
              No,what we will see is those that helped kill 5 people and threatened the lives of every legislator and Mike pence held accountable for their despicable acts of treason.

              These are people that have violated their oath of office to the constitution in their service to a man - Donald Trump. They must be held accountable and removed from office - permanently.
              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                You read alot into what I wrote. I never claimed you were emulating McCarthy.

                I said we may be about to see McCarthy-esq level of overreach.

                You see accusations for giving a tour (which I don't know any details on), I see others saying someone should resign because they emulated democrats and objected to electoral vote counts.

                So, about this particular accusation, I don't know the details. I do know that we are in an area where the demands for resignation/ejections are starting to rise up, and given the number of people who've adovcated for stuff like court packing, I suspect that we are likely to see over-reach for political advantage.
                Sorry, I incorrectly applied your McCarthy reference to my comments. As for not knowing the details, most of what I know is what is in the above linked article. I did also listen to an interview with Rep. Sherrill in which she described her 10 years experience as an Air Force helicopter pilot, specifically how her security training there was relevant to her reporting of the visitors on the 5th.

                As I mentioned, the circumstantial evidence presented does not look good to me. Of course, it could come out that the visitors had no relation to the subsequent break in, and if so, this thread is meaningless. But if it turns out that several of the visitors were later involved in the break in, then my earlier comments come into play.

                Finally, please CD, try to stay on the topic of the OP. If you feel other topics are truly relevant, please state clearly why you feel so when bringing them up. Here I am referring to court packing and comparing objections to the EC count in 2016 with those in 2020, neither of which I see any relation to security issues in the Capitol building.
                Last edited by casaba; 01-14-2021, 09:37 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by casaba View Post

                  Sorry, I incorrectly applied your McCarthy reference to my comments. As for not knowing the details, most of what I know is what is in the above linked article. I did also listen to an interview with Rep. Sherrill in which she described her 10 years experience as an Air Force helicopter pilot, specifically how her security training there was relevant to her reporting of the visitors on the 5th.

                  As I mentioned, the circumstantial evidence presented does not look good to me. Of course, it could come out that the visitors had no relation to the subsequent break in, and if so, this thread is meaningless. But if it turns out that several of the visitors were later involved in the break in, then my earlier comments come into play.

                  Finally, please CD, try to stay on the topic of the OP. If you feel other topics are truly relevant, please state clearly why you feel so when bringing them up. Here I am referring to court packing for which I see no relation to security issues in the Capitol building.
                  That's the thing, this is relevant. One one hand this could be a true accusation. On the other hand, if it's not, it falls into stoking a McCarthy-esq level of accusations against political opponents.

                  Let's say, for a moment, that a congressman gave tours to people who the next day stormed the capitol. It's still entirely reasonable that the congressman was innocent depending on the facts. Congressional staff tours happen, and one prior to a protest wouldn't necessarily raise red flags the congressman in question (especially if you are inclined to believe the people are peaceful). I.E. "I was being taken advantage of" is a reasonable defense against the accusation of "reconnaissance tour". This isn't to say said congressman wasn't foolish, gullible, etc. Just that it's entirely possible that the interpretation being given is wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                    It may be we are about to see McCarthy-esq level of over-reach.
                    Ya think?
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If this was something that was preplanned, and there is new evidence to suggest that it was, then it certainly throws a wrench in the Democrat impeachment narrative that the President's speech on January 6 incited a riot.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        If this was something that was preplanned, and there is new evidence to suggest that it was, then it certainly throws a wrench in the Democrat impeachment narrative that the President's speech on January 6 incited a riot.
                        They'll just say that Trump coordinated all this himself. He is both an imbecile and a masterful genius.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                          That's the thing, this is relevant. One one hand this could be a true accusation. On the other hand, if it's not, it falls into stoking a McCarthy-esq level of accusations against political opponents.

                          Let's say, for a moment, that a congressman gave tours to people who the next day stormed the capitol. It's still entirely reasonable that the congressman was innocent depending on the facts. Congressional staff tours happen, and one prior to a protest wouldn't necessarily raise red flags the congressman in question (especially if you are inclined to believe the people are peaceful). I.E. "I was being taken advantage of" is a reasonable defense against the accusation of "reconnaissance tour". This isn't to say said congressman wasn't foolish, gullible, etc. Just that it's entirely possible that the interpretation being given is wrong.
                          Thanks for the clarification. As I stated, so far the evidence is circumstantial, and I think your points may well be valid explanation of circumstances.

                          Regarding relevancy, my issue was with your mention of court packing (and in an added edit, comparing EC objections in 2016 and 2020, actually 2017 and 2021), not the McCarthy reference.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            If this was something that was preplanned, and there is new evidence to suggest that it was, then it certainly throws a wrench in the Democrat impeachment narrative that the President's speech on January 6 incited a riot.
                            No. If some participants made plans beforehand to invade the Capitol, that does not mean that the invasion would have actually happened without Trump's encouragement on the day.

                            Furthermore, if you read the article of impeachment, it first calls out Trump's "repeatedly issued false statements" regarding election fraud "[i]n the months preceding". Just in case it is not clear to you, President Trump was not impeached for that one speech alone but for his conduct leading up to and including that speech.
                            House Democrats on Monday introduced an article of impeachment charging President Trump with “high crimes and misdemeanors” for inciting the mob that assaulted the Capitol on Wednesday.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by casaba View Post
                              No. If some participants made plans beforehand to invade the Capitol, that does not mean that the invasion would have actually happened without Trump's encouragement on the day.
                              What did President Trump say or do that encouraged people to storm the Capitol building and commit crimes?
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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