‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’: Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state

[oxmixmudd]

The only difference between what happened then and now, is now there are more going to challenge than there were then. Simply a larger number. No other difference. Clearly you don't grasp what we are talking about.

Right. So refusing to concede is not different? Impeding the transition process is not different? Falsely accusing Georgia as he has all alongvwhen it is Republicans saying there is not fraud is not different?

I could go on. I could say you are blind. But the reality is you chose not to see.

[Zara]

I responded to your boy's false claims. That you can't grasp that is your problem.

Whose false claim. The central point of this entire thread is that Trump, falsely, claimed that half a million more people voted for him but vague ramble, something something, vague ramble, rant, ramble, lies, deceit, more lies, even more lies, victimisation, qq, crycry, they stole, cry cry, more lies, ramble, butting in, ramble, lawyers saying he didn't say, butting in, ramble, false claim, find me 12000 vote, if you don't then you might go to jail.

[LiconaFan97]

Other than faithless electors, 2016 was the first time that sort of thing happened for some time, IIRC.

I didn't complain about it then (it's perfectly constitutional), nor do I complain about it now.

I'll be happy to continue this further in the thread KG referenced if you can find which one it is (seems like it would be a new topic in an existing one since I didn't see it from quick checking) but I will point out that Boxer did something similar in 2005 (which is what Cruz is citing) and that was the second time something like what will happen on Wednesday is going to happen.

I don't know Zara and I'm not his 'boy'. I got something wrong and admitted it. Big woop.

[firstfloor]

Trump has a very fixed idea of reality and cannot cope with anything that contradicts his view. This man is not the stable genius he claimed to be but instead, dangerously mad.

His madness is infectious. We wait to see if one madman can ruin American democracy.

[NorrinRadd]

Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[1][2][3]

Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[4][5][6] When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would often be "What about ..." followed by instancing of an event or situation in the Western world.[7][8][9] According to Russian writer, chess grandmaster and political activist Garry Kasparov, it is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[10] Whataboutism has been used by other politicians and countries as well.

Source

This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack. It is used frequently, with "whataboutism" being one particularly well known instance of this fallacy

Source

What a pathetic loser. You're not, a commie Russian, are you? You sure sound like one.

Kindly set all this^ on fire and cram it in your biological tailpipe. One man's "whataboutism" is another man's legitimate noting of hypocrisy.

[shunyadragon]

Possessed, but with millions of followers and even senators and congressman equally possessed.

Time to call in the exorcist.

[oxmixmudd]

Trump has a very fixed idea of reality and cannot cope with anything that contradicts his view. This man is not the stable genius he claimed to be but instead, dangerously mad.

His madness is infectious. We wait to see if one madman can ruin American democracy.

Indeed we do. And with each passing day the likelihood he will be successful doing so grows.

Is Donald Trump really worth the destruction of the greatest voice for freedom and government by the people the world has ever known?

Is a return of true tyrrany to US soil really what those 70 million + people were looking for? Because that is exactly what is coming if Trump is able to block Biden becoming the next president of the US, because the only means left to accomplish that are by ripping our system to shreds by hook or crook, or violent, forceful coup.

I had a pastor once that used to say of suicide: It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Trump overturning the election is a permanently destructive solution to what is in fact a temporary situation, especially if the GOP keeps the senate.

[LiconaFan97]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...en/4124328001/

Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said it would be "appropriate" for the Fulton County district attorney to investigate President Donald Trump's request that he "find" enough votes to make him the winner of the state's presidential election, which he lost to President-elect Joe Biden by nearly 12,000 votes.

The New York Times reported that the call was the 19th made to Raffensperger's office from the White House switchboard since the Nov. 3 election. Raffensperger did not dispute that number when asked about it Monday on CBS' "Good Morning America."

"I never believed it was appropriate to speak with the president. But he pushed out – and I guess he had his staff push us and they wanted the call," Raffensperger said, explaining he had been reluctant to speak to the president because they were still involved in litigation related to the election. "But we took the call and we had a conversation. He did most of the talking, we did most of the listening, but I did want to make my points that the data that he has is just plain wrong."

When asked if he planned to open a criminal investigation into the call, he said he would have a conflict of interest, but added, "I understand that the Fulton County district attorney wants to look at it. Maybe that's the appropriate venue for it to go."

[shunyadragon]

I understood it as needing 1 or more votes to equal or be in excess of 11780. He already had 11779.

He needed 11780 more illegal voted to win.

[LiconaFan97]

He needed 11780 more illegal voted to win.

Correct. And it really doesn't matter if he was asking for just one vote.

[firstfloor]

Cleta resigns:

Mitchell’s resignation came after the law firm on Monday issued a statement saying it was “concerned by” her role in the call. The firm noted that as a matter of policy, its attorneys do not represent “any parties seeking to contest the results of the election.”

[Reepicheep]

Cleta resigns:

I really question the judgement of any lawyer who would take part in helping Trump throw out the result of the 2020 presidential election.

[NorrinRadd]

Turley opines that it is ridiculous to assign criminality to the call.

[firstfloor]

OA455:

Donald Trump is asking in this call, Brad Raffensperger to insert a number they both agree to be false.

Not allowed to the tune of 1-3 years.

The heroic Andrew disagrees with the useless Turley, etc. A great podcast as always.

The discussion of the infamous call that could put Trump in prison begins at 23 mins.

https://openargs.com

[Mountain Man]

Link contains recording of portions of the phone call in question so you hear Trump himself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...555_story.html

President Trump urged fellow Republican Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, to “find” enough votes to overturn his defeat in an extraordinary one-hour phone call Saturday that election experts said raised legal questions.

The Washington Post obtained a recording of the conversation in which Trump alternately berated Raffensperger, tried to flatter him, begged him to act and threatened him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his false claims, at one point warning that Raffensperger was taking “a big risk.”

Throughout the call, Raffensperger and his office’s general counsel rejected his assertions, explaining that Trump is relying on debunked conspiracy theories and that President-elect Joe Biden’s 12,779-vote victory in Georgia was fair and accurate.

“There’s no way I lost Georgia,” Trump said, a phrase he repeated again and again on the call. “There’s no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes.”

During their conversation, Trump issued a vague threat to both Raffensperger and Ryan Germany, the secretary of state’s legal counsel, suggesting that if they don’t find that thousands of ballots in Fulton County have been illegally destroyed to block investigators — an allegation for which there is no evidence — they would be subject to criminal liability.

“That’s a criminal offense,” he said. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.”

Trump also told Raffensperger that failure to act by Tuesday would jeopardize the political fortunes of David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, Georgia’s two Republican senators whose fate in that day’s runoff elections will determine control of the U.S. Senate.

Please listen to the call for yourself and ask yourself why no (real) Republicans are pushing back on this. "If Obama etc." Totally unacceptable behavior from a president to threaten and coerce in this manner. But he only makes perfect phone calls so maybe I'm the one who's in error.

In the most predictable plot twist ever, it turns out this story is fake, and the Washington Compost is now admitting that it falsely attributed certain statements to President Trump.

President Trump says that he appreciates the retraction and hopes that state officials take seriously their obligation to ensure election integrity:

I would further appreciate a strong investigation into Fulton County, Georgia, and the Stacey Abrams political machine which, I believe, would totally change the course of the presidential election in Georgia.

Fulton County has not been properly audited for vote or signature verification. They only looked at areas of the State where there most likely would be few problems, and even there they found large numbers of mistakes. We are seeking to find and reveal the large-scale election fraud which took place in Georgia. Many residents agree, and their anger caused them not to turn out and vote for two Republican Senators in the January election.

The Consent Decree signed between Raffensperger and Stacey Abrams was not approved by the Georgia State Legislature, and therefore should be deemed invalid, and the election result changed. Why the Governor and Raffensperger ever approved this Consent Decree is one of the great questions? We look forward to an answer.

You will notice that establishment media errors, omissions, mistakes, and outright lies always slant one way—against me and against Republicans. Meanwhile, stories that hurt Democrats or undermine their narratives are buried, ignored, or delayed until they can do the least harm—for example, after an election is over. Look no further than the negative coverage of the vaccine that preceded the election and the overdue celebration of the vaccine once the election had concluded. A strong democracy requires a fair and honest press. This latest media travesty underscores that legacy media outlets should be regarded as political entities—not journalistic enterprises. In any event, I thank the Washington Post for the correction.