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On conspiracy Theories (and political outrage)

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  • On conspiracy Theories (and political outrage)

    Something I've noticed. Conspiracy Theories (and political outrage) are fluid things. By that I mean that they metaphorically act like liquids. Liquids have a fixed volume, and they change their shape to fit the container that they are in. In the same ways, conspiracy theories and political outrage end up having a fixed outcome (explain/explain away something or be angry), but they'll change their form in order to fit the details surrounding the specific outrage/conspiracy they are being used for.

    In the age of Trump, liberal conspiracy theories latched onto Russia.

    Source: https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/19/15561842/trump-russia-louise-mensch

    President Donald Trump is about to resign as a result of the Russia scandal. Bernie Sanders and Sean Hannity are Russian agents. The Russians have paid off House Oversight Chair Jason Chaffetz to the tune of $10 million, using Trump as a go-between. Paul Ryan is a traitor for refusing to investigate Trump’s Russia ties. Libertarian heroine Ayn Rand was a secret Russian agent charged with discrediting the American conservative movement.

    © Copyright Original Source



    In the age of Bush, conspiracy theories circled around 9/11, with over half of democrats supporting some form of truther conspiracy.

    Source: https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2011/04/more-than-half-of-democrats-believed-bush-knew-035224

    There aren't a lot of great public numbers on the partisan breakdown of adherents to that conspiracy theory, but the University of Ohio yesterday shared with us the crosstabs of a 2006 poll they did with Scripps Howard that's useful in that regard.

    "How likely is it that people in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?" the poll asked.

    A full 22.6% of Democrats said it was "very likely." Another 28.2% called it "somewhat likely."

    That is: More than half of Democrats, according to a neutral survey, said they believed Bush was complicit in the 9/11 terror attacks.

    © Copyright Original Source




    The thing is, that these aren't really all that different. In general they are things designed to appeal to a political group's (in this case liberal/democrat) dislike of the president. The shapes they took were designed to fit the details of the presidency they disliked. You wouldn't see much conspiracy theory around Trump and 9/11 because it wasn't a factor in Trump's presidency. But the thing is, in general, it's not the subject of the conspiracy theory that matters, the conspiracy theory is going to form around what's there.

    I've noticed the same thing is true about political outrage. We constantly see mountains made out of molehills, the classic example is Obama's Tan Suit. But it's common everywhere. I like to use the phrase "Outrage looking for a place to happen." You can see it in a couple of the poster's here. TDS, ODS, BDS, etc is rampant. That's because they want to be angry, and they'll justify that anger through anything they can reach at as a means to justify it. While Obama had the tan suit, Trump had koigate. Again though, neither one of these incidents was really outrage-worth, but because the opposition was looking for something to hang outrage on, they made mountains out of things that weren't even molehills.

  • #2
    I take your point but I have to question that poll. Are there more which found similar results? I know there are some who blame Bush just like there are some who blame Roosevelt for Pearl Harbor. But those aren't widespread beliefs.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post
      I take your point but I have to question that poll. Are there more which found similar results? I know there are some who blame Bush just like there are some who blame Roosevelt for Pearl Harbor. But those aren't widespread beliefs.
      It was brought up as an example of the larger point. I'm not interested in having this thread go down a rabbit hole side-track. If you believe the poll cited by politico is in error, feel free to start a thread to discuss.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Politico conclusion is a logical fallacy - based on the premise.

        Assuming the 22.6% of Democrats and 28.2% do not contain crossovers, the question was if they believed the "federal government" had involvement. Bush was not the entirety of the federal government. So to conclude "more than half of Democrats, according to a neutral survey, said they believed Bush was complicit in the 9/11 terror attacks" doesn't make sense.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

          It was brought up as an example of the larger point. I'm not interested in having this thread go down a rabbit hole side-track. If you believe the poll cited by politico is in error, feel free to start a thread to discuss.
          No interest in side tracking your thread. I just find your examples a little peculiar for reasons I won't specify to avoid doing what I just said I wasn't going to do. I find the question you're trying to raise a worthwhile one.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
            The Politico conclusion is a logical fallacy - based on the premise.

            Assuming the 22.6% of Democrats and 28.2% do not contain crossovers, the question was if they believed the "federal government" had involvement. Bush was not the entirety of the federal government. So to conclude "more than half of Democrats, according to a neutral survey, said they believed Bush was complicit in the 9/11 terror attacks" doesn't make sense.
            Again, not interested in exploring the illustrative examples here. Politico and it's poll are illustrative of a larger point being made, and I do not wish to go down a rabbit hole discussing it. Feel free to start a thread discussing that particular illustrative point.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

              Again, not interested in exploring the illustrative examples here. Politico and it's poll are illustrative of a larger point being made, and I do not wish to go down a rabbit hole discussing it. Feel free to start a thread discussing that particular illustrative point.
              Might I ask you to sum up that point as succinctly as you can, please?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                Might I ask you to sum up that point as succinctly as you can, please?
                Most often, conspiracy theories and political outrage are not really about the subject. They are more often about using them as a way to express outrage/explain <something>, and just form themselves around the existing facts.

                (I.E. its like how often fights in marriage about money are not really about the money.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                  Most often, conspiracy theories and political outrage are not really about the subject. They are more often about using them as a way to express outrage/explain <something>, and just form themselves around the existing facts.

                  (I.E. its like how often fights in marriage about money are not really about the money.)
                  Thanks. I just find it hard to get "outraged" about anything these days. I guess I'm just not emotional that way.

                  Often, I speak to somebody here on Tweb, and they respond back with something like "Well, I see your outrage"....

                  On the other hand, I read things (or see in the news) things like "The Arab street is OUTRAGED....", and I think --- ok, when are they NOT?

                  I just don't get the "outrage".
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Might I ask you to sum up that point as succinctly as you can, please?
                    I'll offer my opinion. Most conspiracy theories are simply a reaction to something seemingly inexplicable.

                    "How could that one insignificant person kill our mighty president JFK all by himself? It must be a conspiracy."
                    "How could those jets completely knock down those huge buildings? It must be a conspiracy."
                    "How could Epstein kill himself while on suicide watch?"
                    In 2016: "How could someone as unlikeable as Donald Trump win the election?"
                    In 2020: "How could Trump have possibly lost to someone who couldn't even draw a crowd?"

                    Comment

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