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Orwellian World of the Future

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  • Orwellian World of the Future

    Nineteen Eighty Four just got that much closer.



    "You'll own nothing - and you'll be happy." It appears the World Economic Forum took this English-language video down but left up the Spanish-language version.

  • #2
    "You'll own nothing and be happy" sounds more like an order than a prediction.

    Then the very next slide says that you'll rent whatever you want, which begs the question: Who owns the products you're renting?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
      Nineteen Eighty Four just got that much closer.
      Perhaps closer than you think

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        The only thing missing is "... and you will be happy."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          "You'll own nothing and be happy" sounds more like an order than a prediction.

          Then the very next slide says that you'll rent whatever you want, which begs the question: Who owns the products you're renting?
          The elitists, I guess. The Politburo.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
            Nineteen Eighty Four just got that much closer.



            "You'll own nothing - and you'll be happy." It appears the World Economic Forum took this English-language video down but left up the Spanish-language version.
            I am not entirely sure what the content of the video has to to with Orwell's dystopian novel. Have you actually read Nineteen Eighty-Four? Or is it just a reference you employ for anything you do not care for?

            However, much of the content of the video holds some truths. There will be large-scale human migration because of climate change and those refugees will need to be accommodated in other countries. The USA may not be the world's leading super power. However, all Empires fall and, given your past remarks about America First, the removal of the USA as the leading super power [and all the attendant demands and obligations that come with such a role], should please you. As for the comment "A handful of countries will dominate" that is already the state of affairs. So no change there.

            Predictions for making synthetic organs is hardly dystopian. Likewise eating less meat - or meat that has been created in a lab [see here https://scienceline.org/2019/01/the-...ab-grown-meat/ and here https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-created-meat] is hardly something to cause shivers of horror. We know that the western diet is far from healthy and we know that eating large amounts of meat [apart from the industrial cruelty to sentient beings] is environmentally destructive and is linked to various conditions such as heart disease and bowel cancer.

            We also have to reduce our demand and need for fossil fuels. Using less power and using power more efficiently should be the goals of the future. I am not entirely sure if within the next nine years we will see Mars as a tourist destination but one assumes that eventually humans will step next door on to that planet. As for Western values, I am not entirely sure what the video intended by those. If it was referring to democracy, human rights, civil liberties, justice, equality, and tolerance these are constantly being tested. So, once again, no change there.

            All that notwithstanding the comments prior to my own have been decidedly neurotic, one might even opine, paranoid. However, I suspect they were made by those who have not actually read Mr Blair's opus.


            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              I am not entirely sure what the content of the video has to to with Orwell's dystopian novel. Have you actually read Nineteen Eighty-Four? Or is it just a reference you employ for anything you do not care for?
              Yes, I have. I employ it whenever I see statism in its various forms. The connection here is the portion I quoted.

              However, much of the content of the video holds some truths.
              They are admitted "predictions". Predictions aren't "truths," aside from being truthfully predicted.

              There will be large-scale human migration because of climate change and those refugees will need to be accommodated in other countries.
              Possible but doubtful. Refugees tend to be motivated by politics rather than weather.

              The USA may not be the world's leading super power. However, all Empires fall and, given your past remarks about America First, the removal of the USA as the leading super power [and all the attendant demands and obligations that come with such a role], should please you. As for the comment "A handful of countries will dominate" that is already the state of affairs. So no change there.
              I don't want to see the US become militarily or economically weak. I just don't want it to play "world policeman" anymore. There's a difference.

              Predictions for making synthetic organs is hardly dystopian.
              No, that part is just laughable. Like predicting flying cars or travelling the galaxy by the 21st century.

              Likewise eating less meat - or meat that has been created in a lab [see here https://scienceline.org/2019/01/the-...ab-grown-meat/ and here https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-created-meat] is hardly something to cause shivers of horror. We know that the western diet is far from healthy and we know that eating large amounts of meat [apart from the industrial cruelty to sentient beings] is environmentally destructive and is linked to various conditions such as heart disease and bowel cancer.
              I'm nearly a vegetarian anyway. The "shivers of horror" is the suggestion that government was somehow going to be in control of diet.

              We also have to reduce our demand and need for fossil fuels. Using less power and using power more efficiently should be the goals of the future.
              That will come with the advancement of technology. Government can't force the issue.

              I am not entirely sure if within the next nine years we will see Mars as a tourist destination but one assumes that eventually humans will step next door on to that planet.
              Not for several lifetimes.

              As for Western values, I am not entirely sure what the video intended by those. If it was referring to democracy, human rights, civil liberties, justice, equality, and tolerance these are constantly being tested. So, once again, no change there.
              I understood that as an attack on western values.

              All that notwithstanding the comments prior to my own have been decidedly neurotic, one might even opine, paranoid. However, I suspect they were made by those who have not actually read Mr Blair's opus.
              Again, the connection to 1984 was mostly regarding the idea that 'government will control you and you will be happy.'

              Comment


              • #8
                For many of us here that are baby-boomers both Nineteen Eighty-Four and Animal Farm were required reading in school. I even watched the 1954 film version of the latter in class at least twice.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  For many of us here that are baby-boomers both Nineteen Eighty-Four and Animal Farm were required reading in school. I even watched the 1954 film version of the latter in class at least twice.
                  Yeah, there's another one becoming reality in our lifetime.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    They are admitted "predictions". Predictions aren't "truths," aside from being truthfully predicted.
                    I think we can be reasonably certain that, as this century unfolds, we will witness increasing human migration caused by climate change and those migrants/refugees will need to be accommodated.

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    Possible but doubtful. Refugees tend to be motivated by politics rather than weather.
                    You are confusing terms. The term refugee in the broadest sense may define "a person who flees for refuge or safety, especially to a foreign country, as in time of political upheaval, war, etc" The "etc" of course covering a variety of reasons. A political refugee is what I suspect you were thinking of.

                    However, the fact remains that humans have always migrated and those migrations have been for a variety of different reasons such as pressure from other groups, a desire for land, the impact of warfare, freedom to live as they wish, and so forth. It even appears that climate change encouraged early migration out of Africa. https://www.sapiens.org/biology/early-human-migration/

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    I don't want to see the US become militarily or economically weak.
                    Given the size of the USA I do not envisage its economy weakening, although that will, to some extent, depend on the vagaries of capitalism which, left unfettered, will always opt for the cheapest work-force and the highest profits. As for its military, that will also depend on domestic decisions. The scaling down of the US military after 1917 with increased Isolationism coupled with the serious economic problems of the late 1920s and into the 1930s is a case in point.

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    I just don't want it to play "world policeman" anymore. There's a difference.
                    If the USA ceases to be the world’s policeman will domestic views still require/accept a large military? Again, the period after 1917 shows how the US military was scaled down. Will US citizens still want their tax dollars spent on a huge military if America First becomes the predominant political viewpoint?

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    No, that part is just laughable. Like predicting flying cars or travelling the galaxy by the 21st century.
                    Yet synthetic organs are already being developed and used. https://futurism.com/neoscope/artifi...lants-obsolete. The accompanying video is fascinating.

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    I'm nearly a vegetarian anyway. The "shivers of horror" is the suggestion that government was somehow going to be in control of diet.
                    The market is consumer driven and if more people become “nearly vegetarian”, totally vegetarian, or, like our friend Gondwanaland, vegan then the demand will fall and meat production will drop.

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    That will come with the advancement of technology. Government can't force the issue.
                    Government can play an instrumental role in providing incentives for technological advancement and of course legislation.

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    Not for several lifetimes.
                    Some might disagree on the time factor but my question would be who would want to go there anyway?

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    I understood that as an attack on western values.
                    The ones I listed?

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    Again, the connection to 1984 was mostly regarding the idea that 'government will control you and you will be happy.'
                    Yet your video prediction makes no mention of government. It simply states "You'll own nothing. And you'll be happy."

                    Perhaps you are leaping to conclusions.
                    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                      "You'll own nothing - and you'll be happy." It appears the World Economic Forum took this English-language video down but left up the Spanish-language version.
                      I'm always bemused at future predictors. They employ a lot of faith and a fair share of stupidity.

                      We won't own anything, but we can rent food, ostensibly we return the rental through the sewage system.

                      There are always predictions of US downfall, much like there will always be an alien battle ship or Corellian death ray ready to destroy life on earth.

                      Medical science has enough issues dealing with the China virus. Maybe by 2030 Lord Fauci will figure out whether masks work or not.

                      Still waiting on that flying car...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                        The elitists, I guess. The Politburo.
                        Exactly. So the liberal dream is that only the "elites" of society will retain the right of private ownership, and the rest of us will be granted the "privilege" of renting from them. This also means that any members of society not in "good standing" can be punished by revoking such privileges.

                        "Are your papers in order, citizen? It would be a shame if you could no longer rent the home you live in."
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You didn't build that.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            I think we can be reasonably certain that, as this century unfolds, we will witness increasing human migration caused by climate change and those migrants/refugees will need to be accommodated.

                            You are confusing terms. The term refugee in the broadest sense may define "a person who flees for refuge or safety, especially to a foreign country, as in time of political upheaval, war, etc" The "etc" of course covering a variety of reasons. A political refugee is what I suspect you were thinking of.
                            No confusion here. I said most refugees migrate due to politics; that may be oppression, war, and even the mid-80s Ethiopian famine. Manmade causes - and not weather.

                            However, the fact remains that humans have always migrated and those migrations have been for a variety of different reasons such as pressure from other groups, a desire for land, the impact of warfare, freedom to live as they wish, and so forth. It even appears that climate change encouraged early migration out of Africa. https://www.sapiens.org/biology/early-human-migration/

                            Given the size of the USA I do not envisage its economy weakening, although that will, to some extent, depend on the vagaries of capitalism which, left unfettered, will always opt for the cheapest work-force and the highest profits. As for its military, that will also depend on domestic decisions. The scaling down of the US military after 1917 with increased Isolationism coupled with the serious economic problems of the late 1920s and into the 1930s is a case in point.
                            Now it's you who are confusing terms. Every time an American libertarian mentions anti militarism or ending this endless policy of "world policeman" it somehow gets twisted into "isolationism." They are not interchangeable. The US is not obliged to charge into every neighborhood on this planet and police bad guys. This often ends up as "regime change." This is neither a legal nor moral responsibility for my country - no more than it is for Germany. Is Germany isolationist since it doesn't attempt to overthrow Gaddafi, Mubarak, Assad, Saddam Hussein, or any other selective tyrant around the world?

                            If the USA ceases to be the world’s policeman will domestic views still require/accept a large military? Again, the period after 1917 shows how the US military was scaled down. Will US citizens still want their tax dollars spent on a huge military if America First becomes the predominant political viewpoint?
                            It should sustain a military large enough to dissuade hostiles from provoking it.

                            Yet synthetic organs are already being developed and used. https://futurism.com/neoscope/artifi...lants-obsolete. The accompanying video is fascinating.
                            I will watch when I have more time. I did forget about the artificial hearts that have been around for decades.

                            The market is consumer driven and if more people become “nearly vegetarian”, totally vegetarian, or, like our friend Gondwanaland, vegan then the demand will fall and meat production will drop.

                            Government can play an instrumental role in providing incentives for technological advancement and of course legislation.

                            Some might disagree on the time factor but my question would be who would want to go there anyway?
                            Why do people want to go to Everest? Mars will be awfully cost prohibitive for a very, very long time.

                            The ones I listed?
                            No, the reference in the video.

                            Yet your video prediction makes no mention of government. It simply states "You'll own nothing. And you'll be happy."

                            Perhaps you are leaping to conclusions.
                            Perhaps. But judging by the theme of everything produced by the WEF, I'd say it's a justified jump.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                              Nineteen Eighty Four just got that much closer.
                              Well the author told us how to avoid it:

                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it." -George Orwell, Why I Write


                              If you are genuinely concerned about the idea that the elites will own everything and the average person will own nothing and be told to be happy about it (and I sure am concerned about that!), then you are concerned about inequality increasing in our society.

                              It is therefore really important to support political policies that will promote more equality, and stop the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. We are, unfortunately, well on the way to being a society in which the average person owns nothing - since lots of people are heavily in debt, the proportion of people who have zero or negative net wealth in our society is getting pretty large. Inequality in our society is becoming a bigger and bigger problem, and unfortunately the way its trending now, the OP description might well come true.

                              Hence it is really important for societies to explore new ways of limiting and preventing this inequality and new ways of transferring wealth from the ultra-rich to those who have none. As well as to re-examine what methods have worked in the past. Piketty's work has demonstrated that within the Western world there was a period of much greater equality from ~1945-1985, compared to the periods around it, which coincided with much greater tax rates on the rich, much more powerful trade unions demanding higher wages for employees, and much more active government regulation of the economy. We know what types of methods can work.

                              But inequality is now getting so extreme that perhaps more extreme solutions are required - wealth taxes on the rich (or on property and shares) funding a universal basic income for all might be a better way to go.
                              Last edited by Starlight; 12-06-2020, 04:42 PM.

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