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Trump considering pardons for 3.5 children, Guilliani

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  • Trump considering pardons for 3.5 children, Guilliani

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/u...ni-pardon.html



    President Trump has discussed with advisers whether to grant pre-emptive pardons to his children, to his son-in-law and to his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, and talked with Mr. Giuliani about pardoning him as recently as last week, according to two people briefed on the matter.
    Mr. Trump has told others that he is concerned that a Biden Justice Department might seek retribution against the president by targeting the oldest three of his five children — Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — as well as Ms. Trump’s husband, Jared Kushner, a White House senior adviser.
    Donald Trump Jr. had been under investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, for contacts that the younger Mr. Trump had had with Russians offering damaging information on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign, but he was never charged. Mr. Kushner provided false information to federal authorities about his contacts with foreigners for his security clearance, but was given one anyway by the president.
    The nature of Mr. Trump’s concern about any potential criminal exposure of Eric Trump or Ivanka Trump is unclear, although an investigation by the Manhattan district attorney into the Trump Organization has expanded to include tax write-offs on millions of dollars in consulting fees by the company, some of which appear to have gone to Ms. Trump.



    I know many on here will immediately dismiss this because it comes from the failing NYT but I still wanted to put it out there so that when this happens I can point to it. I'm also curious if anyone on here actually thinks it's not likely that Trump will pardon a number of people he's personally connected to on his way out the door.

  • #2
    I hope he does! I agree with Rep. Matt Gaetz that Bad Orange Man should, assuming he really does end up losing, toss out pardons like candy at a parade. He should do so for exactly the reasons cited in the first paragraph of the Failing New York Times article, viz. that various powerful Dems have been openly salivating at the chance to use any and all means to punish BOM and anyone and everyone remotely tied to him in any non-inimical way.

    Given that "impeachment" is explicitly cited as the *only* exception to Article II Section 2 Presidential pardon power, he should even preemptively pardon himself.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
      I hope he does! I agree with Rep. Matt Gaetz that Bad Orange Man should, assuming he really does end up losing, toss out pardons like candy at a parade. He should do so for exactly the reasons cited in the first paragraph of the Failing New York Times article, viz. that various powerful Dems have been openly salivating at the chance to use any and all means to punish BOM and anyone and everyone remotely tied to him in any non-inimical way.

      Given that "impeachment" is explicitly cited as the *only* exception to Article II Section 2 Presidential pardon power, he should even preemptively pardon himself.
      Can he pardon himself? Can he make pre emptive pardons? Would that mean he can never be charged for anything forever?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Watermelon View Post

        Can he pardon himself? Can he make pre emptive pardons? Would that mean he can never be charged for anything forever?
        He's just going with the "originalist position."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post
          https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/u...ni-pardon.html



          President Trump has discussed with advisers whether to grant pre-emptive pardons to his children, to his son-in-law and to his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, and talked with Mr. Giuliani about pardoning him as recently as last week, according to two people briefed on the matter.
          Mr. Trump has told others that he is concerned that a Biden Justice Department might seek retribution against the president by targeting the oldest three of his five children — Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — as well as Ms. Trump’s husband, Jared Kushner, a White House senior adviser.
          Donald Trump Jr. had been under investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, for contacts that the younger Mr. Trump had had with Russians offering damaging information on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign, but he was never charged. Mr. Kushner provided false information to federal authorities about his contacts with foreigners for his security clearance, but was given one anyway by the president.
          The nature of Mr. Trump’s concern about any potential criminal exposure of Eric Trump or Ivanka Trump is unclear, although an investigation by the Manhattan district attorney into the Trump Organization has expanded to include tax write-offs on millions of dollars in consulting fees by the company, some of which appear to have gone to Ms. Trump.



          I know many on here will immediately dismiss this because it comes from the failing NYT but I still wanted to put it out there so that when this happens I can point to it. I'm also curious if anyone on here actually thinks it's not likely that Trump will pardon a number of people he's personally connected to on his way out the door.
          I said something similar several weeks ago. The reaction was basically a shrug, so they're totally fine with Trump pardoning essentially whoever he wants for basically whatever reason, with the usual false equivalence being offered up as the excuse to do so. 'President's have done X Y & Z minor things in the past, therefore it's totally fine for Trump to take it to the usual extremes and we won't bat an eyelid coz he's our guy.'

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Watermelon View Post

            Can he pardon himself? Can he make pre emptive pardons? Would that mean he can never be charged for anything forever?
            Even those who take a very expansive view of POTUS pardon powers generally believe they only apply to *Federal* charges. So on that view anyone pardoned by Bad Orange Man could still be in jeopardy from State and local entities.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Nationalist.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Comment


            • #7
              The pardon power needs to be removed from the constitution. It makes the US look like a banana republic.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post
                https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/u...ni-pardon.html



                President Trump has discussed with advisers whether to grant pre-emptive pardons to his children, to his son-in-law and to his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, and talked with Mr. Giuliani about pardoning him as recently as last week, according to two people briefed on the matter.
                Mr. Trump has told others that he is concerned that a Biden Justice Department might seek retribution against the president by targeting the oldest three of his five children — Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — as well as Ms. Trump’s husband, Jared Kushner, a White House senior adviser.
                Donald Trump Jr. had been under investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, for contacts that the younger Mr. Trump had had with Russians offering damaging information on Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign, but he was never charged. Mr. Kushner provided false information to federal authorities about his contacts with foreigners for his security clearance, but was given one anyway by the president.
                The nature of Mr. Trump’s concern about any potential criminal exposure of Eric Trump or Ivanka Trump is unclear, although an investigation by the Manhattan district attorney into the Trump Organization has expanded to include tax write-offs on millions of dollars in consulting fees by the company, some of which appear to have gone to Ms. Trump.



                I know many on here will immediately dismiss this because it comes from the failing NYT but I still wanted to put it out there so that when this happens I can point to it. I'm also curious if anyone on here actually thinks it's not likely that Trump will pardon a number of people he's personally connected to on his way out the door.
                Likely. I mean Clinton Pardoned friends and family.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  The pardon power needs to be removed from the constitution. It makes the US look like a banana republic.
                  The pardon power is excellent. It is one of the most purely unilateral and undiluted powers of the Executive. It is a power of unappealable, irrevocable mercy, totally immune from the other branches of government. POTUS has no comparable power to inflict judgment or punishment, only mercy.

                  One might say that "mercy triumphs over judgment."
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Nationalist.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    The pardon power needs to be removed from the constitution. It makes the US look like a banana republic.
                    Well, given the Governor General of New Zealand also has that power, I guess you guys are in a banana republic as well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                      Even those who take a very expansive view of POTUS pardon powers generally believe they only apply to *Federal* charges. So on that view anyone pardoned by Bad Orange Man could still be in jeopardy from State and local entities.
                      I would be somewhat sympathetic to an argument that the 14th Amendment should be interpreted to implicitly extend Presidential pardon powers to the States in the same way that it explicitly extends Bill of Rights protections.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Nationalist.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                        I said something similar several weeks ago. The reaction was basically a shrug, so they're totally fine with Trump pardoning essentially whoever he wants for basically whatever reason, with the usual false equivalence being offered up as the excuse to do so. 'President's have done X Y & Z minor things in the past, therefore it's totally fine for Trump to take it to the usual extremes and we won't bat an eyelid coz he's our guy.'
                        The majority conservative voices here have no honor or commitment to any sort of character or high road when it comes to politics. Anything is ok as long as it preserves the narrative the big bad democrats are big bad democrats. It sickens me. And it has infected a large portion of the country, and a large piece of the evangelical community. A people given over to paranoia, fantastical stories and out and out lies. A people that will turn on anyone that speaks what is truth, or who calls for a return to any sort of high road. Just look at Georgia, or Barr as it has become even too much for him to continue down this deadly and self-destructive fantasy.
                        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                          The majority conservative voices here have no honor or commitment to any sort of character or high road when it comes to politics. Anything is ok as long as it preserves the narrative the big bad democrats are big bad democrats. It sickens me. And it has infected a large portion of the country, and a large piece of the evangelical community. A people given over to paranoia, fantastical stories and out and out lies. A people that will turn on anyone that speaks what is truth, or who calls for a return to any sort of high road. Just look at Georgia, or Barr as it has become even too much for him to continue down this deadly and self-destructive fantasy.
                          Yup. Supporting unlimited abortions and homosexuality and "social Justin's all the things the left loves is certainly the high road.

                          Wait a minute. Let's go check with God on that.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                            Well, given the Governor General of New Zealand also has that power, I guess you guys are in a banana republic as well.
                            I was going to ask.
                            Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                              Yup. Supporting unlimited abortions and homosexuality and "social Justin's all the things the left loves is certainly the high road.

                              Wait a minute. Let's go check with God on that.
                              You remember when Jesus said to do certain things without neglecting others?

                              We are talking about a complete abandonment of reality and truth. I assure you it is possible to maintain Godly positions on abortion and homosexuality without abandoning reality and truth and character. It is NOT either or.

                              However, truthfulness and integrity are fundamental basics for any position. You start there. Who did Jesus praise? Those who on some level exhibited purity of heart. Who did He condemn? Those who embraced lies and falsehoods in themselves and in others.
                              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                              Comment

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