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Legislatures allowed to choose whichever way to set their electors

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  • #16
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    You've seen how our court systems work.
    Unclear what you're saying here. If you're saying that someone will try to sue over it, sure. People sue over plenty of dumb stuff. But a state deciding to give its electors to the popular vote winner of another state is obviously constitutional and would presumably offend no other law of the state (on the basis that passing a law to give the electors to the winner of another state would entail repealing any laws that contradict such a thing) and thus they would be ruled against.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
      Here's a question. Colorado is currently a blue state. It wasn't all that long ago that it was a swing state.

      Here's a hypothetical.

      Let's say that Colorado decides goes Red. Then, in an act of helping the presidency stay GOP, decides to tie the states electoral vote to the result of the popular vote in Wyoming (which went 70% for Trump in 2020). At the most basic constitutional reading, this is legal because, as stated legislatures can choose to assign their votes however they want.

      We know that this action would be met with a lawsuit.

      What do you think the outcome would be, and why?
      A scarier (because more likely) scenario would be where a purple (or slightly blue) state, which has a Republican-controlled legislature and Republican governor (because of gerrymandering), passes a law saying that the electors are to be chosen by a vote of the legislature.

      This would allow Republicans to win the presidency with an even smaller minority than they are able to now. And I can't think of a reason that the courts would disallow it, or the voters would be able to defeat it. (Though I suppose the threat of civil unrest would make them think twice about doing it.)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
        What do you think the outcome would be, and why?
        It depends on what the state law says.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

          A scarier (because more likely) scenario would be where a purple (or slightly blue) state, which has a Republican-controlled legislature and Republican governor (because of gerrymandering), passes a law saying that the electors are to be chosen by a vote of the legislature.

          This would allow Republicans to win the presidency with an even smaller minority than they are able to now. And I can't think of a reason that the courts would disallow it, or the voters would be able to defeat it. (Though I suppose the threat of civil unrest would make them think twice about doing it.)
          Why would that be scary? There's nothing in the Constitution that says electors must be chosen by vote of the people, and I would greatly prefer this to the pseudo-popular vote we have now which has been a complete mess for a long time. It would also give more power to state legislatures and increase the importance of state elections. This would be a good thing.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Why would that be scary? There's nothing in the Constitution that says electors must be chosen by vote of the people, and I would greatly prefer this to the pseudo-popular vote we have now which has been a complete mess for a long time. It would also give more power to state legislatures and increase the importance of state elections. This would be a good thing.
            I would expect Republicans to like the idea, because it would give them an advantage over Democrats, which is all they seem to care about.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Stoic View Post

              I would expect Republicans to like the idea, because it would give them an advantage over Democrats, which is all they seem to care about.
              And you prefer ideas that give Democrats an advantage over Republicans, because that's all you care about, right?

              If it was solely up to state legislatures to choose their presidential electors, then it would be up to the people to vote for a legislature that would support the person they would want to be president and would take us back to the roots of our Constitution where the state legislatures would wield some degree of power over the federal government.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                And you prefer ideas that give Democrats an advantage over Republicans, because that's all you care about, right?

                If it was solely up to state legislatures to choose their presidential electors, then it would be up to the people to vote for a legislature that would support the person they would want to be president and would take us back to the roots of our Constitution where the state legislatures would wield some degree of power over the federal government.
                Clearly allowing highly gerrymandered state governments to make the call is the originalist position.

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                • #23
                  The inherent problem I have with having state legislatures choose the electors is that I hardly think we need to give them more of a reason to gerrymander.

                  Not that it particularly matters, given that it's such an unpopular suggestion it isn't going to happen.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    Why would that be scary? There's nothing in the Constitution that says electors must be chosen by vote of the people, and I would greatly prefer this to the pseudo-popular vote we have now which has been a complete mess for a long time. It would also give more power to state legislatures and increase the importance of state elections. This would be a good thing.
                    Of course you could go all the way and simply abolish the universal franchise entirely. However, that leads to that question that Juvenal would ask, "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
                    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      Why would that be scary? There's nothing in the Constitution that says electors must be chosen by vote of the people, and I would greatly prefer this to the pseudo-popular vote we have now which has been a complete mess for a long time. It would also give more power to state legislatures and increase the importance of state elections. This would be a good thing.
                      We tried that with how Senators were elected until the 17th Amendment

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                        The inherent problem I have with having state legislatures choose the electors is that I hardly think we need to give them more of a reason to gerrymander.

                        Not that it particularly matters, given that it's such an unpopular suggestion it isn't going to happen.
                        IIRC, historically the primary problem was one of cronyism

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Well, it appears the Pennsylvania legislature isn't interested in going any further. Or, at least, it's more important to spend December on vacation.

                          https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...gain-this-year

                          Pennsylvania House GOP leaders: Lawmakers won't meet again this year

                          The Republican leaders of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives announced late Saturday that they will not be returning to session this year, a move that would appear to preclude any possibility of lawmakers interceding in the 2020 election.

                          House Speaker Bryan Cutler, R-Quarryville, and Majority Leader Kerry Benninghoff, R-Bellefonte, released a joint statement saying that they would not be calling their chamber to Harrisburg on Monday, the final possible day for the 2019-20 session of the Legislature to meet.

                          “We are physically unable to consider any new legislation before the end of session,” they wrote in the statement. “A simple resolution takes three legislative days for consideration and a concurrent resolution takes five legislative days to move through both chambers, which means we do not have the time needed to address any new resolutions in our current session.”

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            Well, it appears the Pennsylvania legislature isn't interested in going any further. Or, at least, it's more important to spend December on vacation.
                            Well, first things first. Our democracy...or vacation? Who would even hesitate?
                            America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

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