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Lindsey Graham is a criminal.

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  • Lindsey Graham is a criminal.

    I call on all fair minded Twebbers to help prosecute Lindsey Graham for election fraud.


    Since narrowly losing Georgia to Joe Biden, President Donald Trump has promoted baseless claims of voter fraud in a desperate effort to overturn the results of the election. So far, however, the only individual credibly accused of a fraudulent effort to steal the election is South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham. On Monday, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger—who, like Graham, is a Republican—told the Washington Postthat Graham asked him if he could throw out all mail ballots from counties with a high rate of signature mismatch. Raffensperger later clarified that he believed Graham wanted his office to throw out valid, legally cast ballots. The senator has contested this account.

    Graham’s alleged request is unseemly and corrupt. But is it criminal? In short, yes, according to multiple Georgia election law experts. If Raffensperger’s account is true, there is virtually no doubt that Graham committed a crime under Georgia law. The more difficult question is whether Graham will suffer any consequences for his alleged offense. Because he is a Republican and a sitting U.S. senator, Graham likely won’t face an investigation, let alone prosecution, for conduct that would get almost anyone else arrested. It might be tempting to dismiss Graham’s alleged interference as unscrupulous strategizing blown out of proportion. But Georgia has a sordid history of prosecuting putative voter fraud involving far more innocent conduct. Graham does not deserve a pass simply because he is a wealthy white senator.

    To understand why Graham’s alleged conduct was criminal, we have to look at what, exactly, he asked Raffensperger to do. He says Graham wanted him to toss out thousands of perfectly valid mail ballots, omitting them from the official count, because they were mailed from a county with unusually high rates of signature mismatch. (That means the signature on the ballot envelope doesn’t match the signature on file.) Signature mismatch disproportionately affects racial minorities, who lean Democratic overall, and Georgia is required to let voters cure a mismatched signature under a federal court order.

    Had Raffensperger followed through with this request, he would’ve run afoul of several state laws. In Georgia, it is a crime for anyone, including election officials, to destroy a ballot. It is also a crime for anyone to falsify any records or documents used in connection with an election, or to place any false entries in such records. Another law explicitly criminalizes such conduct by elected officials, prohibiting the falsification of any document related to their public office.

    Raffensperger did not follow through; instead, he blew the whistle. That doesn’t mean Graham is off the hook. Cathy Cox, the dean of Mercer University’s School of Law who previously served as Georgia’s secretary of state, told me that at least two other state laws encompass the senator’s alleged actions. The first bars “attempts to interfere with” an election official’s “performance of any act or duty.” By allegedly asking Raffensperger to falsify the vote count, Graham plainly sought to interfere with the secretary of state’s truthful certification of the election. The second law targets “criminal solicitation to commit election fraud.” An individual is guilty of this offense when he “solicits, requests, commands, importunes, or otherwise attempts to cause” another person to commit an election-related offense. Destroying ballots and falsifying voting records, Cox noted, both fall into that category. An individual is culpable regardless of whether they succeeded in inducing fraud.

    These offenses carry serious consequences. Attempting to interfere with the performance of election duties is a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year’s imprisonment. Solicitation of election fraud in the first degree—which Graham allegedly committed by asking Raffensperger to falsify the vote count—is a felony. The minimum sentence is one year in prison; the maximum is three. In sum, Graham could face several years in prison if convicted of these crimes.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

  • #2
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    I call on all fair minded Twebbers to help prosecute Lindsey Graham for election fraud.
    Asking a question is a far, far cry from actually doing something.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Asking a question is a far, far cry from actually doing something.
      Perhaps we should be more concerned with why he [allegedly] asked the question in the first instance.
      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

      Comment


      • #4
        I've never been a fan. Go ahead and prosecute him, if you have the "evidence."

        The problem here is that Leftists only consider a bloody knife or a smoking gun to be "evidence."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
          I call on all fair minded Twebbers to help prosecute Lindsey Graham for election fraud.
          How does it violate the law to have a count of legal votes before Raffensperger certifies the election results?

          It is quite a stretch, nothwithstanding biased legal analysts, to say that interference with fradulent votes is a criminal action. It seems that this also is a misdemeanor if evidence truly supported the prosecution. The fraudulent or errant votes act against the valid votes of the people. Is that what the desired result is?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
            I've never been a fan. Go ahead and prosecute him, if you have the "evidence."

            The problem here is that Leftists only consider a bloody knife or a smoking gun to be "evidence."
            That's not true. Smoking guns aren't evidence unless the democrat is handling it within 5 seconds of the shooting, and even then there's evidence that its a republican plot to smear them. On the other hand, the fact that a murder was committed in a republican's hometown is evidence that the republican is guilty even if he was on live TV from New Orleans at the exact same time as the murder.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
              That's not true. Smoking guns aren't evidence unless the democrat is handling it within 5 seconds of the shooting, and even then there's evidence that its a republican plot to smear them. On the other hand, the fact that a murder was committed in a republican's hometown is evidence that the republican is guilty even if he was on live TV from New Orleans at the exact same time as the murder.
              This is exactly backward. Try calibrating your views from the facts.

              Investigations into Republicans consistently discover criminal wrongdoing, investigations into Democrats consistently don't. Simply put, in the last 50 years the Republicans have been the party of crime. They commit it frequently. The Dems don't.

              No matter how absurdly over-the top the Republican investigations of Dems are, they don't find actionable crimes no matter how much they dig. 40 years of investigations into the Clintons, 8 Benghazi investigations, and Hillary Clinton is still not locked up. Every Republican theory about the Dems doing criminal activity, every wild idea about Dems needing to be locked up, pretty much turned out to be 100% republican fantasy, completely imaginary and fictitious.

              Whereas whenever Dems do even a little bit of investigation of Republicans, they find prosecutable crimes. Many of Trump's 2016 senior campaign staff and advisors are currently serving prison sentences or facing indictments. That's a pretty normal level of criminality for Republican administrations of the last 50 years. The Dems seem to find Republican crimes every time they investigate, which suggests they aren't doing enough investigations - makes you wonder how many crimes the Republicans are committing that go undiscovered because there's not enough investigations of their activities.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                That's not true. Smoking guns aren't evidence unless the democrat is handling it within 5 seconds of the shooting, and even then there's evidence that its a republican plot to smear them. On the other hand, the fact that a murder was committed in a republican's hometown is evidence that the republican is guilty even if he was on live TV from New Orleans at the exact same time as the murder.
                I'll save you some time. The graphs Starlight links to are from the Daily KOS, just slightly to the left of Gorbachev. They compiled the (cough) "facts".

                daily kos.jpg

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                  I'll save you some time. The graphs Starlight links to are from the Daily KOS
                  Do you think that the number of people sent to prison is different if a person on the left counts it as opposed to a person on the right?


                  ...actually, I guess I don't think right-wingers are intelligent enough to count to ten in general, so I guess they might reach different totals.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Do you think that the number of people sent to prison is different if a person on the left counts it as opposed to a person on the right?
                    Do you think that the "extreme Left" is going to count politically-loaded court cases fairly? C'mon Star, you're smarter than that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                      Do you think that the "extreme Left" is going to count politically-loaded court cases fairly?
                      Yes. Whether a case ended up with someone in prison is pretty clear and anyone is capable of counting the number of times that occurred.

                      I've seen similar graphs from a variety of sources, so your obsession with source of the particular graphs I used is bonkers. The data is the same regardless of who graphed it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        This is exactly backward. Try calibrating your views from the facts.

                        Investigations into Republicans consistently discover criminal wrongdoing, investigations into Democrats consistently don't. Simply put, in the last 50 years the Republicans have been the party of crime. They commit it frequently. The Dems don't.

                        No matter how absurdly over-the top the Republican investigations of Dems are, they don't find actionable crimes no matter how much they dig. 40 years of investigations into the Clintons, 8 Benghazi investigations, and Hillary Clinton is still not locked up. Every Republican theory about the Dems doing criminal activity, every wild idea about Dems needing to be locked up, pretty much turned out to be 100% republican fantasy, completely imaginary and fictitious.

                        Whereas whenever Dems do even a little bit of investigation of Republicans, they find prosecutable crimes. Many of Trump's 2016 senior campaign staff and advisors are currently serving prison sentences or facing indictments. That's a pretty normal level of criminality for Republican administrations of the last 50 years. The Dems seem to find Republican crimes every time they investigate, which suggests they aren't doing enough investigations - makes you wonder how many crimes the Republicans are committing that go undiscovered because there's not enough investigations of their activities.
                        With the Dems we get things like yeah we know she's as guilty as sin and have enough evidence to throw her under the jail and flush the key -- but no prosecutor would prosecute the case so let's just drop it.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Yes. Whether a case ended up with someone in prison is pretty clear and anyone is capable of counting the number of times that occurred.
                          And I suppose if two people are sentenced to prison for, say, "leaving the scene of an accident" (completely apolitical) your "extreme" Left graph would show both the Republican and the Democrat equally?

                          I've seen similar graphs from a variety of sources, so your obsession with source of the particular graphs I used is bonkers. The data is the same regardless of who graphed it.
                          "Source" is important in cases like this, yes. If I found a right-wing graph that showed Democrats were 90% more likely to be adulterers', you'd believe that?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            With the Dems we get things like yeah we know she's as guilty as sin and have enough evidence to throw her under the jail and flush the key -- but no prosecutor would prosecute the case so let's just drop it.
                            Perfect example.

                            ...after extremely thorough investigations of Clinton, and despite a strong desire to "lock her up", not even the most zealous Republican attorney general nor any zealous Republican prosecutor, thinks there's actually evidence worth mounting a prosecution against her... yet morons like you are convinced "she's guilty as sin and [we] have enough evidence to [lock her up]".

                            Perfect example of delusional thinking on your part.

                            The beliefs of the Republican base are in clear mismatch with reality regarding the criminality of Dems. Whereas every time there the Dems allege crimes and investigate, people end up going to prison - unlike the Republican base they weren't imagining crimes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              Perfect example.

                              ...after extremely thorough investigations of Clinton, and despite a strong desire to "lock her up", not even the most zealous Republican attorney general nor any zealous Republican prosecutor, thinks there's actually evidence worth mounting a prosecution against her... yet morons like you are convinced "she's guilty as sin and [we] have enough evidence to [lock her up]".

                              Perfect example of delusional thinking on your part.

                              The beliefs of the Republican base are in clear mismatch with reality regarding the criminality of Dems. Whereas every time there the Dems allege crimes and investigate, people end up going to prison - unlike the Republican base they weren't imagining crimes.
                              Comey laid out the case and several US prosecutors (both current and past) expressed shock and disbelief at his comment about nobody would have prosecuted clearly stating they would.

                              After the election it was widely seen as a moot issue and dropped.

                              It goes to show that conservatives in general are not nearly as vindictive as those on the left.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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