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Cuomo, Sheriffs, and Dictators

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  • Originally posted by seanD View Post

    I haven't specifically looked at the court docs -- maybe you can link me to the source you used -- but just reading your post sounds like semantics. They were stricter towards the churches than the businesses and gave businesses more leniency sounds like the exact same issue. They violated the first amendment of religious organizations just the same. How does that change anything? Every article I've read on the subject says the court ruled the mandates UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and they specifically use that term. It seems you're going out of way to argue it's not unconstitutional, and I'm not at surprised you are. But I'd appreciate you link me to those court docs, thanks.
    Maybe you could link some of those articles? Since I haven't read a single one that espouses your point of view.
    "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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    • Originally posted by seanD View Post

      Btw, lawsuits have been issued against Cuomo by business owners as well, apparently because the attorneys (you know, those individuals we assume are better experts at the law than either you or I) also believe that the mandates are... wait for it... UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
      Quit beating a dead horse, bro. I referenced the NY order being ruled unconstitiontal before you ever even brought it up. It doesn't prove what you're saying, in fact it's the exception to the rule. It was ruled unconstitutional because of the first amendment issues, and the implication is that otherwise the shutdown orders were CONSTITUTIONAL. You keep making sweeping statements about how all the shutdown orders are unconstitutional, and you have no evidence to back that up.

      Here's the opinion on the case, in case you're interested. Unless you're willing to engage the text with more reading comprehension than you have with the other material you've read, I'm not sure you should waste your time. You clearly have a lot riding on your belief that the orders are all just unconstitiontal.

      https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...20a87_4g15.pdf
      "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

      Comment


      • Originally posted by myth View Post

        Quit beating a dead horse, bro. I referenced the NY order being ruled unconstitiontal before you ever even brought it up. It doesn't prove what you're saying, in fact it's the exception to the rule. It was ruled unconstitutional because of the first amendment issues, and the implication is that otherwise the shutdown orders were CONSTITUTIONAL. You keep making sweeping statements about how all the shutdown orders are unconstitutional, and you have no evidence to back that up.

        Here's the opinion on the case, in case you're interested. Unless you're willing to engage the text with more reading comprehension than you have with the other material you've read, I'm not sure you should waste your time. You clearly have a lot riding on your belief that the orders are all just unconstitiontal.

        https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...20a87_4g15.pdf
        You keep asking me to prove there are cases, yet you acknowledge these cases exist at the same time. The mental gymnastics you've got to go through to justify it is astounding, but understandable I guess considering your profession. Actually this particular case confirms what I said in my initial post #120. The issue never was whether violating first amendment rights was unconstitutional. It is, period, and you can't get around that. The issue is does science and the sake of the public health justify violating those rights, and that's where the area gets murky and grey. And it seems to be what these lawsuits reflect. They're agreeing with me that there are two issues and acknowledge that the mandates are in fact unconstitutional and violate their first amendment, and disagree that the science/health risk is enough to justify this violation which is the excuse government is trying to use.

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        • Originally posted by seanD View Post

          You keep asking me to prove there are cases, yet you acknowledge these cases exist at the same time. The mental gymnastics you've got to go through to justify it is astounding, but understandable I guess considering your profession. Actually this particular case confirms what I said in my initial post #120. The issue never was whether violating first amendment rights was unconstitutional. It is, period, and you can't get around that. The issue is does science and the sake of the public health justify violating those rights, and that's where the area gets murky and grey. And it seems to be what these lawsuits reflect. They're agreeing with me that there are two issues and acknowledge that the mandates are in fact unconstitutional and violate their first amendment, and disagree that the science/health risk is enough to justify this violation which is the excuse government is trying to use.
          Well, I'm done arguing with you about this. I'll say this as nicely as a I can -- but you lack the capacity to understand this issue. Later dude.
          "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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