Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria
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The ethics of a hypothetical pre-natal screening for Homosexuality
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostFolks will always be prejudiced. And all of us have prejudices. Just look at how we select who we date and marry. There is an awful lot of prejudices that come into play there. Everything from the sex of the person to what their political/religious beliefs are.
You can't wave a wand and make it disappear as much as you might want to.
So you have to deal with those prejudices and act accordingly.
Where is the innate hostility to homosexuality [the topic of this thread]? Do pre-school children differentiate between one another on such grounds? How do people come to their opinions about homosexuality/homosexuals in western society?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
I'm not sure how many dodges this is at this point.
What we should be doing is addressing prejudices against homosexuality [the topic of this thread].
Your earlier comments belie your prejudices. Where does that negative attitude you demonstrated and the antagonism towards [what we now term homosexuality and homosexuals] come from?
Do we find the same animus towards different sexual orientations in all cultures throughout all of recorded human history? No we do not. Hence it is not innate within human beings.
Therefore this hostility and antipathy that your earlier remarks so neatly encapsulated, is cultural. It is learned. Exactly as racism or gender stereotyping is learned."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
That is a very sweeping and somewhat over simplified reply. The analysis of prejudice and the cultural conditioning of behaviours and attitudes is very complex.
Where is the innate hostility to homosexuality [the topic of this thread]? Do pre-school children differentiate between one another on such grounds? How do people come to their opinions about homosexuality/homosexuals in western society?
As to homosexuality and babies. Even a lot of the most P.C., "wokest" of parents might think that it's grand but it isn't something they want for their children.
1.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Your entire thread is a hypothetical therefore I do not need to anything "in the meantime".
What we should be doing is addressing prejudices against homosexuality [the topic of this thread].
Your earlier comments belie your prejudices. Where does that negative attitude you demonstrated and the antagonism towards [what we now term homosexuality and homosexuals] come from?
Do we find the same animus towards different sexual orientations in all cultures throughout all of recorded human history? No we do not. Hence it is not innate within human beings.
Therefore this hostility and antipathy that your earlier remarks so neatly encapsulated, is cultural. It is learned. Exactly as racism or gender stereotyping is learned.
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Actually there was an article many years ago that I unfortunately don't have about the argument of homosexuality being genetic or lifestyle choice. One of the the people responding to that question said the idea should never be entertained because it could lead to just this situation which he considered too like eugenics for his comfort. Interesting part was he was a prominent leader of a gay group involved in politics. I sometimes think about digging for it but it was during the early days of the internet and I don't know if it will turn up. My point is, the idea is already being argued over. I suspect no one is crazy about the connection to eugenics.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostActually it strikes right at the heart of the matter. Prejudice is something that may well be a product of evolution[1].
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostWe will always discriminate on one basis or another.
What evidence supports either of those statements?
We know nothing of the cultural behaviours and attitudes of our early human ancestors. We have no idea if, when groups did come into contact, there was inevitably violence and/or hostility. Yes it appears violence did occur but we cannot use isolated evidence to make an assertion about all early human behaviours across tens of thousands of years.
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAs to homosexuality and babies. Even a lot of the most P.C., "wokest" of parents might think that it's grand but it isn't something they want for their children.
However, I would suggest [and I can only write from personal anecdotal experience] that most of that concern is because of existing social prejudices against homosexuality and regard for a child’s welfare and the fact that most parents do not wish their children to come to harm or be unhappy.
Most parents [I suspect] do not wish to have their children beaten up in the street, reviled in school, mocked by their work colleagues, discriminated against in housing, job promotions, or the right to be a parent, raped to cure them of their lesbianism, or worse murdered, simply because they are gay.
There is nothing intrinsically offensive about homosexuality. The antipathy and aversion are the result of negative cultural attitudes. Were that not so homosexuality [as we now know it] would have been condemned in all societies in all recorded history. And we know that is not the case. Homophobia and antipathy towards homosexuals is learned behaviour exactly as racism, sexism, or religious prejudices are learned.
Now why not address my questions?
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
Who's assigning positions now?
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
You made comments that reflect western cultural prejudices and antipathy towards homosexuality.Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 11-27-2020, 06:48 AM.
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
Well, duh. You asked why someone might want to abort a gay fetus. Those western prejudices would be the reason. Are you telling me you can't tell the difference between "Motive" and "justification"?
You may as well start a thread about a hypothetical situation whereby any embryo that has a "genetic" disposition to be left-handed should be aborted."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
You, as with the rest of us, are a product of your experiences and upbringing. You exhibit those prejudices in what you write. It is those irrational prejudices that I referenced some while ago.
You may as well start a thread about a hypothetical situation whereby any embryo that has a "genetic" disposition to be left-handed should be aborted.
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
No, You brought up prejudices when I answered your questions about "why" someone would choose to abort a child. You then took the answers provided as if I stated them as my opinion. You've failed there, and my guess is that this tactic is just another way to push the conversation away from you dodging the conflict in morals brought up in the hypothetical and instead try to focus on your new made-up prejudice attack.
You then wrote that "At the end of the day, it's irrelevant "WHY" what is relevant is that it likely would happen." It is the "WHY" I am addressing.
If your hypothetical scenario was ever possible you are contending that abortions would take place because of existing cultural prejudices against homosexuals. Just as currently female embryos are aborted because of cultural prejudices against women.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
You wrote this "Cultural, wanting their kids to be "normal", not wanting their kids to live a life that is harder for them, just not liking gays, etc." All of which are premised on existing cultural prejudices.
You then wrote that "At the end of the day, it's irrelevant "WHY" what is relevant is that it likely would happen." It is the "WHY" I am addressing.
If your hypothetical scenario was ever possible you are contending that abortions would take place because of existing cultural prejudices against homosexuals. Just as currently female embryos are aborted because of cultural prejudices against women.
That doesn't at all say anything about my prejudices, anymore than you saying Asian cultures have a preference for may children and that is why women are selectively aborted there, says anything about your prejudices about women.
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View PostThat doesn't at all say anything about my prejudices, anymore than you saying Asian cultures have a preference for may children and that is why women are selectively aborted there, says anything about your prejudices about women.
Why do you think Asian cultures have a preference for male children?
Why are females undervalued?
What is the underlying reason?
Why do you consider westerners want "their kids to be "normal"?
Why do you think some westerners are prone to "just not liking gays"?
Where do those negative attitudes and that hostility originate?
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostOf course all that points to cultural attitudes and prejudice.
Why do you think Asian cultures have a preference for male children?
Why are females undervalued?
What is the underlying reason?
Why do you consider westerners want "their kids to be "normal"?
Why do you think some westerners are prone to "just not liking gays"?
Where do those negative attitudes and that hostility originate?
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