Republicans, What Will Satisfy You?

[Gondwanaland]

You sore that your once-great country is now so pathetic and so far outstripped by my small country? Sad.

No, I'm quite happy my country doesn't have dictatorial nationwide lockdowns, that I have the means and right to protect myself with firearms, etc.. Wouldn't want to look anything like your sad velcro-gloved country that still bows to a Queen.

We'll see though, Biden appears to want to subvert the constitution and do a nationwide lockdown. The Tree of Liberty might end up getting some overdue watering in the coming years.

[Gondwanaland]

What is wrong with you? Insulting England and then parroting the sheep's line "greatest country on the planet"? Are you ill?

And, of course, nobody is trying to "deconstruct" America. That's paranoia.

Actually I insulted New Zealand, the land of the sheep-lovers. And I don't mean that in a platonic way.

Literally his entire post was about how to deconstruct everything that makes America, America. Learn to read.

[Maranatha]

As we wend our way through various Republicans' lawsuits and possible other actions, what will/would satisfy you that the election was fair, with no cheating, and Biden is the legitimate President? All of the Republican lawsuits being lost or thrown out? The Supreme Court declining to act? At this stage would would it take for you to concede?

An election where you have to show ID with signature to vote, where you sign the paper ballot and can be compared if a recount is needed. Where only ballots cast in person count. The only exception is absentee, where a photocopy of the ID is included and must be received by the election date, remain unopened until election day where any observer can witness the counting. In fact anyone should be able to witness any counting in their district.

That is the "fairest" it can get for me, but now you have rampant corruption.

So you logically cannot ask for concession and brush off the unfairness.

I think the best you can hope for is concession, have people continually point of the unfairness, and you will likely oppose fairness for the next election.

[Gondwanaland]

I believe he was going after New Zealand rather than England in that particular bigoted instance. The "greatest country on the planet" bit even after what his lot have done to it was funny though.

Oh? And what is my "lot"? Name them, please.

[Gondwanaland]

Nope! You are not and you never were. As for the Royals, I'd take 'em a million times over the Orange Idiot and Moscow Mitch!

That's Cocaine Mitch to you, Kiwi. Keep on bowing to that queen

[Bill the Cat]

As we wend our way through various Republicans' lawsuits and possible other actions, what will/would satisfy you that the election was fair, with no cheating, and Biden is the legitimate President? All of the Republican lawsuits being lost or thrown out? The Supreme Court declining to act? At this stage would would it take for you to concede?

I already conceded when they called PA.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Probably because die-hard US patriots didn't bother to read it.

It would appear that at least one read it.

Every democracy (every government for that matter) is flawed. But as far as democracies go, the US has done a relatively good job for the longest amount of time.

Pardon?

The US has not always been a democracy, as in having universal franchise. It did not permit one person one vote in the 1780s. At that time only property owners could vote and thousands of human beings were categorised as chattels.

[Ronson]

That's because the United States is explicitly not a democracy -- in fact, our Founding Fathers were extremely wary of such a system of government and deliberately designed the US to not be a democracy but a representative republic.

Colloquially.

[Ronson]

It would appear that at least one read it.

After you corrected yourself in the second post.

Pardon?

The US has not always been a democracy. It did not permit one person one vote in the 1780s. At that time only property owners could vote and thousands of human beings were categorised as chattels.

I just said that all governments are flawed. What's your point?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

After you corrected yourself in the second post.

Oh it is sweet of you to read my remarks and comment upon them.

I just said that all governments are flawed. What's your point?

Your remark that "But as far as democracies go, the US has done a relatively good job for the longest amount of time". The "the longest amount of time" in relation to what? And what sort of democracy? One like that of ancient Athens?

I also note MM has offered his interpretation of the US political system.

[Charles]

The question reminded me of the wise words of Michael Gerson:

What America is now experiencing is a massive failure of character — a nationwide blackout of integrity — among elected Republicans. From the president, a graceless and deceptive insistence on victory after a loss that was not even close. From congressional Republicans, a broad willingness to conspire in President Trump’s lies and to slander the electoral system without consideration of the public good. Only a few have stood up against Republican peer pressure of contempt for the constitutional order.

How could such a thing happen in the GOP? It is not an aberration. It is the culmination of Trump’s influence among Republicans, and among White evangelical Christians in particular. Their main justification for supporting Trump — that the president’s character should be ignored in favor of his policies — has become a serious danger to the republic.

THIS IS A MASSIVE FAILURE OF CHARACTER AMONG REPUBLICANS — WITH EVANGELICALS OUT IN FRONT

When you are asking people who completely sold out with regards to integrity and ethics and who have now lost the very, very little they got in return, you should not be confused if it takes a lot to satisfy them.

[Stoic]

The problem is that, like in many things, Trump isn't really doing anything new. He's using the same actions of past politicians and leaning further into them than those before.

Refusing to concede, lawsuits, allegations of fraud? All done before. Gore sued when he lost. Stacey Abrams refused to concede. Democrats have cried fraud when Bush won the second time, they cried fraud when trump won. Trump is basically doing it all at once, which highlights these actions, and people are paying closer attention because it's trump doing it. But, he's not breaking new ground, he's just treading the old ground with a steamroller while doing donuts.

Appealing to Republican state legislatures to ignore the people's vote and appoint their own slate of electors based on false pretenses seems like breaking new ground.

[CivilDiscourse]

Appealing to Republican state legislatures to ignore the people's vote and appoint their own slate of electors based on false pretenses seems like breaking new ground.

It's not vastly different than pressuring electors directly to ignore the people's vote. Nor is it different than trying to get electors to ignore their state votes and vote for the national vote winner.

[Stoic]

It's not vastly different than pressuring electors directly to ignore the people's vote. Nor is it different than trying to get electors to ignore their state votes and vote for the national vote winner.

It's different than both of those in terms of the likelihood of success. If Trump can convince most Republicans that the election was fraudulent (even without actually providing evidence in court), there will be a lot of pressure on those state legislatures. Individual electors aren't likely to succumb to pressure, and Republican states aren't likely to give up their electoral college advantage by agreeing to have their electors support the national popular vote winner.

It's also different in how much harm it would do to our country. I expect the fracture would be irreparable if the attempt was successful. We already have a lot of discontent due to Republicans being able to hold power with a minority based on gerrymandering and the electoral college. This would probably be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Finally, if it happens once, we can count on it happening regularly. It's kind of like school shootings that way.

[CivilDiscourse]

It's different than both of those in terms of the likelihood of success. If Trump can convince most Republicans that the election was fraudulent (even without actually providing evidence in court), there will be a lot of pressure on those state legislatures. Individual electors aren't likely to succumb to pressure, and Republican states aren't likely to give up their electoral college advantage by agreeing to have their electors support the national popular vote winner.

It's also different in how much harm it would do to our country. I expect the fracture would be irreparable if the attempt was successful. We already have a lot of discontent due to Republicans being able to hold power with a minority based on gerrymandering and the electoral college. This would probably be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Finally, if it happens once, we can count on it happening regularly. It's kind of like school shootings that way.

Yes. The fact that these tactics are not new, does not mean that it's a good idea.