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Republicans, What Will Satisfy You?

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  • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    You don't seem to do well with nuance so I don't want to continue down this path. Suffice to say, I read everything using discernment. I apply common sense to news stories and consider the source.
    You don't have to talk to me if you don't want to but I'm not going to accept your attack. There is no nuance to your position. You accept news from a known untrustworthy source because it confirms your desired conclusion. It is really no more complicated than that. There is a reason I don't read daily kos or huffpo or other sites which have shown themselves to be untrustworthy even if much of what they report is accurate. Stop reading Russian propaganda sites and do likewise.


    Russians have had spy satellites as long (maybe longer) than we have, so they aren't really at a disadvantage. Open Skies was only useful to them if it was a one-way street because it gave them an advantage. If their only other option was to open up their airspace equally to the west, then I assume they'd rather go back to satellites than have western aircraft flying over their military installations. Again, Russia has a very paranoid history when it comes to being secretive. None of this surprises me.
    You did not provide any evidence that Russia was noncompliant. I had to do more searching to even find the supposed issues of noncompliance which tells me you are either unaware of what they are or don't understand them. Even taking the most generous reading of their supposed noncompliance shows Open Skies to be very far from a one way street. Your credibility is fragmenting by the second.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post
      You did not provide any evidence that Russia was noncompliant. I had to do more searching to even find the supposed issues of noncompliance which tells me you are either unaware of what they are or don't understand them. Even taking the most generous reading of their supposed noncompliance shows Open Skies to be very far from a one way street. Your credibility is fragmenting by the second.
      OK. The Trump pulled the US out not because they cheat, but because he hates the Russians.

      No, that can't be right. Trump pulled the US out to appease the Russians. And Russia faked being angry because Trump and Putin are in cahoots and there is an ulterior motive hidden from the public.

      I guess.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

        You don't have to talk to me if you don't want to but I'm not going to accept your attack. There is no nuance to your position. You accept news from a known untrustworthy source because it confirms your desired conclusion. It is really no more complicated than that. There is a reason I don't read daily kos or huffpo or other sites which have shown themselves to be untrustworthy even if much of what they report is accurate. Stop reading Russian propaganda sites and do likewise.
        Sorry, I lost this part.

        I read all sorts of things at different times. I'm not going to limit what I read because I've prejudged it. People link me to the NYT, I read it. People link me to RT or Fox or Salon, I read it. I don't have to agree with any of it.

        And you do recognize nuance but you don't bother with it in your news gathering. It's obvious because you just admitted you refuse to read certain things.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

          OK. The Trump pulled the US out not because they cheat, but because he hates the Russians.

          No, that can't be right. Trump pulled the US out to appease the Russians. And Russia faked being angry because Trump and Putin are in cahoots and there is an ulterior motive hidden from the public.

          I guess.
          Would it kill you to attempt to represent my position accurately? Putin wanted out. He didn't want to pay the cost of doing it himself. Trump knowingly or unknowlingly complied because Trump it is easy to manipulate. People like you who are so blinded by worship of Trump (spare me your outrage) that you are willing to accept Russian propaganda.

          If I'm wrong then point me to the actions Russia took to try to save the treaty.

          I read all sorts of things at different times. I'm not going to limit what I read because I've prejudged it. People link me to the NYT, I read it. People link me to RT or Fox or Salon, I read it. I don't have to agree with any of it.

          And you do recognize nuance but you don't bother with it in your news gathering. It's obvious because you just admitted you refuse to read certain things.
          It's not prejudging to discard things said by known propaganda outlets. I refuse to read certain things because I would have to verify what they said regardless, so what's the point? Do you think I have time to triple check every headline which would be oh so delicious if it were true? It's not like actually important news isn't confirmed by trustworthy sources. There is no important "secret" news out there. Just ask 2015-2016 year old me about the stuff I believed about the Clinton story based on what fringe outlets "reported" like about Guccifer 2.0 or the (Bill) Clinton presidential sketches which were hacked or 99% of what I was reading on r/politics.

          Comment


          • According to this unfortunately paywalled article (WSJ) Trump is moving to dismantle the planes used in Open Skies. What possible reason can there be to do that during the lame duck session of an election you lost? Good grief.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post
              According to this unfortunately paywalled article (WSJ) Trump is moving to dismantle the planes used in Open Skies. What possible reason can there be to do that during the lame duck session of an election you lost? Good grief.
              Most articles on the action don't mention dismantling any aircraft. If that is being done, there are myriad reasons for it that have nothing to do with Trump or Biden. They may be antiquated and simply being replaced.

              Trump indicated that a new more-accountable Open Skies treaty may eventually be signed, so that doesn't sounds like someone trying to sabotage future deals.

              https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2020...n-skies-treaty

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                Most articles on the action don't mention dismantling any aircraft. If that is being done, there are myriad reasons for it that have nothing to do with Trump or Biden. They may be antiquated and simply being replaced.

                Trump indicated that a new more-accountable Open Skies treaty may eventually be signed, so that doesn't sounds like someone trying to sabotage future deals.

                https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2020...n-skies-treaty
                How many times did he "indicate" he was going to build a wall? How many times did he "indicate" he would have a health care plan? How many times did he "indicate" that COVID would disappear? His "indications" are worthless.

                Find me some evidence that these plans have replacements ready. Stop making things up for Trump of all people.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                  How many times did he "indicate" he was going to build a wall? How many times did he "indicate" he would have a health care plan? How many times did he "indicate" that COVID would disappear? His "indications" are worthless.

                  Find me some evidence that these plans have replacements ready. Stop making things up for Trump of all people.
                  *planes (but plans works fine as well)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post
                    Find me some evidence that these plans have replacements ready.
                    I can't even verify the story, much less find extra details to it. All the articles refer to WSJ as their source, and WSJ is behind a paywall so I can't see who they source for their facts.

                    Until something more concrete surfaces this story is a deadend.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                      *planes (but plans works fine as well)
                      A planeplan?

                      America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                      Comment

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