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Republicans, What Will Satisfy You?

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  • Republicans, What Will Satisfy You?

    As we wend our way through various Republicans' lawsuits and possible other actions, what will/would satisfy you that the election was fair, with no cheating, and Biden is the legitimate President? All of the Republican lawsuits being lost or thrown out? The Supreme Court declining to act? At this stage would would it take for you to concede?
    America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
    As we wend our way through various Republicans' lawsuits and possible other actions, what will/would satisfy you that the election was fair, with no cheating, and Biden is the legitimate President? All of the Republican lawsuits being lost or thrown out? The Supreme Court declining to act? At this stage would would it take for you to concede?
    Well, considering Democrats never conceded given they kept fighting Trump for the last 4 years, trying to pressure the electoral college, trying to refuse to certify the vote in congress, trying a coup with the 25th amendment, etc. perhaps the answer should be 'nothing'.

    I'm convinced Biden did win. But it's going to take alot more for many to "accept" Biden as president, given the behavior of Democrats for the last 4 years. At least republicans are rioting in the streets over the loss.

    Comment


    • #3
      I know of one Libertarian who wants a full special election to commence in February, with U.N. monitors and hand ballots counted manually.

      Comment


      • #4
        What will satisfy me? A plausible explanation other than fraud for all the numerous discrepancies and literally impossible statistical anomalies, all in China Joe's favor. We're looking at an OJ Simpson sort of situation here, where everybody knows who is guilty regardless of what the courts decide.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
          As we wend our way through various Republicans' lawsuits and possible other actions, what will/would satisfy you that the election was fair, with no cheating, and Biden is the legitimate President? All of the Republican lawsuits being lost or thrown out? The Supreme Court declining to act? At this stage would would it take for you to concede?
          It seems the GOP base really wants a rigged election.

          Edited to add.

          You [and any other likeminded individuals] may find this Editorial piece interesting if you have not already read it.

          https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/o...gtype=Homepage.

          From the article:

          The greatest damage of Mr. Trump’s recent actions, however, may come in future election seasons. Mr. Trump is establishing a vocabulary of denial to election results. He is training politicians to try to overturn outcomes they don’t like — to actively sabotage democracy.
          Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 11-20-2020, 06:00 PM.
          "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

            It seems the GOP base really wants a rigged election.

            Edited to add.

            You [and any other likeminded individuals] may find this Editorial piece interesting if you have not already read it.

            https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/o...gtype=Homepage.

            From the article:

            The greatest damage of Mr. Trump’s recent actions, however, may come in future election seasons. Mr. Trump is establishing a vocabulary of denial to election results. He is training politicians to try to overturn outcomes they don’t like — to actively sabotage democracy.
            The problem is that, like in many things, Trump isn't really doing anything new. He's using the same actions of past politicians and leaning further into them than those before.

            Refusing to concede, lawsuits, allegations of fraud? All done before. Gore sued when he lost. Stacey Abrams refused to concede. Democrats have cried fraud when Bush won the second time, they cried fraud when trump won. Trump is basically doing it all at once, which highlights these actions, and people are paying closer attention because it's trump doing it. But, he's not breaking new ground, he's just treading the old ground with a steamroller while doing donuts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

              The problem is that, like in many things, Trump isn't really doing anything new. He's using the same actions of past politicians and leaning further into them than those before.

              Refusing to concede, lawsuits, allegations of fraud? All done before. Gore sued when he lost. Stacey Abrams refused to concede. Democrats have cried fraud when Bush won the second time, they cried fraud when trump won. Trump is basically doing it all at once, which highlights these actions, and people are paying closer attention because it's trump doing it. But, he's not breaking new ground, he's just treading the old ground with a steamroller while doing donuts.
              The real problem is the antiquated electoral system the US has for choosing its president. What might have worked quite well in 1787 for thirteen colonies and a few thousand voters does not play so well in a country of fifty colonies and over 153 million registered voters [as of 2018].

              The sooner the American people demand the abolition of the Electoral College the better. I am not normally in favour of the FPTP method but in the case of the election of a president it seems the most sensible option. One citizen, one vote and the candidate that gets the most votes from the most citizens goes to the White House.
              "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                The real problem is the antiquated electoral system the US has for choosing its president. What might have worked quite well in 1787 for thirteen colonies and a few thousand voters does not play so well in a country of fifty colonies and over 153 million registered voters [as of 2018].

                The sooner the American people demand the abolition of the Electoral College the better. I am not normally in favour of the FPTP method but in the case of the election of a president it seems the most sensible option. One citizen, one vote and the candidate that gets the most votes from the most citizens goes to the White House.
                Of course it's the most sensisible option. The EC is outdated, outmoded and as anti-democratic - and anti-American - a notion as I can imagine. It actively works to subvert the will of the people. It's sure as hell not doing what the founders wanted (remember, it was only a compromise; nobody really liked the idea at all).
                America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  A plausible explanation other than fraud for all the numerous discrepancies and literally impossible statistical anomalies
                  The plausible explanation is that this was a free and fair election, and all the imaginary things you're concerned about are all in your head.

                  We've seen the right-wing crazies invent their own fantasy facts over the last 4 years, but the level of imagination they've brought to this election really takes the cake.

                  One of the best-run US elections of modern times, and yet they're convinced that not only was fraud absolutely rife, but so much so that the election might need to be rerun. It's literal insanity in the sense that they've completely lost all connection to reality and are reacting to a completely fictitious view of the world. Even when Republican leaders of these states publicly declare that they've themselves done investigations and found no fraud at all, it makes no dent in the fever dreams of these crazies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    The real problem is the antiquated electoral system the US has for choosing its president.
                    That's obviously a problem, but in a way it's one of the least.

                    To actually fix the US system, I'd turn it into a one-House parliamentary democracy (i.e. abolish the presidency, abolish the senate, thus leaving the House as the governing body making the Speaker of the House position the leader of the government. I'd make the House properly proportional, the Cabinet posts would all be filled by House members who would retain their House seats while serving in Cabinet.), and reform the supreme court to not be politically appointed nor serve for life, and ideally remove most of the rights from the constitution so that SCOTUS doesn't get creative ideas about striking down laws based on creative interpretations of those rights. Then add some decent anti-corruption laws, and a decent way of electing House members - e.g. either preferential / instant runoff / STV, or MMP...

                    ...and you might be able to salvage the country and return it to first-world status.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
                      Of course it's the most sensisible option. The EC is outdated, outmoded and as anti-democratic - and anti-American - a notion as I can imagine. It actively works to subvert the will of the people. It's sure as hell not doing what the founders wanted (remember, it was only a compromise; nobody really liked the idea at all).
                      Very true. James Wilson's proposal was also the second choice of many delegates as Douglas Lawrence points out. Lawrence also notes that "Alexander Hamilton, a strong supporter of Wilson’s proposal, argued that entrusting the task to such men “affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications" [my emphasis]

                      How wrong Hamilton was proven to be in 2016!
                      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
                        As we wend our way through various Republicans' lawsuits and possible other actions, what will/would satisfy you that the election was fair, with no cheating, and Biden is the legitimate President? All of the Republican lawsuits being lost or thrown out? The Supreme Court declining to act? At this stage would would it take for you to concede?
                        If the election is certified (or whatever is the proper term) on Dec. 14, I will acknowledge at that point that it is legitimate to refer to Sniffin' Joe as "President-Elect."

                        If all legal challenges fail to establish system-wide issues significant enough to account for enough votes to reverse the election results, I will acknowledge Senile Joe as POTUS.

                        I will *never* accept the election as "free and fair," given the tactics employed by Big Media, Big Tech, Big Pharma, and others.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Nationalist.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                          If the election is certified (or whatever is the proper term) on Dec. 14, I will acknowledge at that point that it is legitimate to refer to Sniffin' Joe as "President-Elect."

                          If all legal challenges fail to establish system-wide issues significant enough to account for enough votes to reverse the election results, I will acknowledge Senile Joe as POTUS.

                          I will *never* accept the election as "free and fair," given the tactics employed by Big Media, Big Tech, Big Pharma, and others.
                          Right...so...rampant paranoia. Got it.
                          America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
                            As we wend our way through various Republicans' lawsuits and possible other actions, what will/would satisfy you that the election was fair, with no cheating, and Biden is the legitimate President? All of the Republican lawsuits being lost or thrown out? The Supreme Court declining to act? At this stage would would it take for you to concede?
                            Not a Republican, but for me, a full hand recount complete with audit and strict signature verification (as well as registration verification) in all the states that have shown irregularities. Said recount to take place with each counter being closely observed by an official from both parties who can flag and examine suspect ballots as they go.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
                              Right...so...rampant paranoia. Got it.
                              I am cautiously optimistic that several tens of millions of others will have similar views.
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Nationalist.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Comment

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