Biden now +17 in Wisconsin

[Christian3]

I think we can all agree, since Trump supporters always do what he says, that on election day we can take Trump's vote total and divide by 2 to get an accurate count of the number of individuals who voted for him.

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. (James 1:26)

Whoever goes about slandering reveals secrets; therefore do not associate with a simple babbler. (Proverbs 20:19)

[Christian3]

Maybe you should read the news? Or has all your mail been arriving on time lately?

My mail is on time.

You have no sources -- just gossip.

[oxmixmudd]

My mail is on time.

You have no sources -- just gossip.

My mail is not. And I am the norm, not you. I have been dealing with a never ending stream of delayed items both incoming and outgoing when using the USPS to the point I've had to stop using any sort of automated payments that result in actual checks being mailed (and there are still some of them out there) and move to paying over the phone to avoid late fees because of mail delays. This fact the mail is unacceptably slow right now is well documented

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/politics/usps-delays-issues-anger-customers/65-94f8a710-e797-434b-bac2-0e6fd0d1423d

https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronav...b74-story.html

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/maryl...tinue/33596582

https://www.kmov.com/news/missouri-m...6ab489f41.html

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/1...an-5-days.html

and lawsuits have resulted in court orders to cease and desist the policies that are creating the problems.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...postal-service

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...c67_story.html


And please be smart enough to recognize that this is related to the USPS, not amazon, not UPS.

[seanD]

Good Grief. First - we know about these people throwing away mail (which included in some cases ballots or political adds) because they were arrested and FIRED. And since most mail in ballots are FOR Biden, how in the world do you know these were TRUMP votes that got tossed? The one in New Jersey threw away almost 1900 pieces of mail, 99 of which were ballots. This was an indiscriminate act by a person that was just lazy. The two in Pittsburgh are a similar situation. These made the news because there were ballots in the mix. It doesn't point to any sort of systemic attempt to interfere with the election, just lazy workers that didn't want to deliver all the mail they were responsible for. Or is there some other instance you are referring to?

How about the REAL sabotage engendered by postmaster DeJoy directed by Trump to destroy the USPS capacity to DELIVER the mail on time in the first place? Or the attempts to prevent valid ballots from being counted AS A RESULT OF SAID SABOTAGE MAKING THEM ARRIVE AFTER NOV 3? Or the overt efforts by Trump at his rallies to put people at the polls as illegal 'poll watchers' and those groups that are intending to show up ARMED to intimidate voters under the guise of 'poll watching'. Or Trump's 'suggestion' his voters vote twice, once by mail, once at the polls?

Which political side pushed hard for mail-in ballots in the first place? It's inevitable we were/are going to see scattered cases of fraud, impropriety and error with such a system implemented for the first time in this country on such a massive scale. Yet who kept pushing for it anyway in spite of Fauci and Birx, the SCIENTISTS you incessantly opine we're supposed to listen to, saying in-person voting was safe? Are the Dems just dumb, or did they know these issues would inevitably occur and just wanted to see disruption of the election?

You're a partisan nut.

[oxmixmudd]

Which political side pushed hard for mail-in ballots in the first place? It's inevitable we were/are going to see scattered cases of fraud, impropriety and error with such a system implemented for the first time in this country on such a massive scale. Yet who kept pushing for it anyway in spite of Fauci and Birx, the SCIENTISTS you incessantly opine we're supposed to listen to, saying in-person voting was safe? Are the Dems just dumb, or did they know these issues would inevitably occur and just wanted to see disruption of the election?

<ad hom removed>

I can't fix this level of ignorance, but I can post the simple truth about it:

Advocating for mail in ballots came as a mechanism to make voting SAFE from coronavirus.

Trump and Dejoy's sabotage of the USPS came as part of a general campaign to undermine faith in the US election process and as they realized that with more mail in ballots, the could amplify that lack of confidence if they could slow the mail.

Trump has been trying to undermine this election for over two years now. The sabotage of he USPS is just part of that effort.

That this was a conscious effort by Trump and Dejoy is just a plain fact. No person in their right mind changes how the postal service works in ways that will slow its delivery of letters and parcels like those used to carry the ballots knowing an election is upcoming and those changes will affect its integrity and timeliness. The resistance to stopping the changes and dragging of the feet with respect to restoring efficiency and timeliness is the smoking gun wrt the fact this is a conscious, purposed effort to slow the mail at least until the election is over.

[seanD]

I can't fix this level of ignorance, but I can post the simple truth about it:

Advocating for mail in ballots came as a mechanism to make voting SAFE from coronavirus.

Trump and Dejoy's sabotage of the USPS came as part of a general campaign to undermine faith in the US election process and as they realized that with more mail in ballots, the could amplify that lack of confidence if they could slow the mail.

Trump has been trying to undermine this election for over two years now. The sabotage of he USPS is just part of that effort.

That this was a conscious effort by Trump and Dejoy is just a plain fact. No person in their right mind changes how the postal service works in ways that will slow its delivery of letters and parcels like those used to carry the ballots knowing an election is upcoming and those changes will affect its integrity and timeliness. The resistance to stopping the changes and dragging of the feet with respect to restoring efficiency and timeliness is the smoking gun wrt the fact this is a conscious, purposed effort to slow the mail at least until the election is over.

How am I ignorant? I'll ask again, if your conspiracy theory is true, why did the Dems push for MIV, a system never before implemented in this country on such a large scale? If the experts told us in-person voting is safe, why push for something anyway when you know Trump is trying to disrupt it? That makes no sense, unless the Dems wanted that typo of disruption in the first place.

[oxmixmudd]

How am I ignorant? I'll ask again, if your conspiracy theory is true, why did the Dems push for MIV, a system never before implemented in this country on such a large scale? If the experts told us in-person voting is safe, why push for something anyway when you know Trump is trying to disrupt it? That makes no sense, unless the Dems wanted that typo of disruption in the first place.

MIV - you mean the effort to register more immigrant voters? Are you kidding?

You are ignorant because you ignore the fact Trump purposefully sabotaged the USPS prior to the election. Again, to do what they did before an election that would require more mail-in ballots than ever before was sabotage. Treason really - because one of the fundamental bull works of our freedom and our nation is confidence in a secure and free election process. And Trump has spared no expense and left no stone unturned in his efforts to make sure this election is the most difficult and insecure in history.

You are ignorant in that no matter what efforts are taken to reduce the possibility of spread at the polls, in person voting is not 'safe' even though what can be done to make it 'safer' is being done. The safest way to vote is to not be in a room with 30 other people marking their ballots, or in line with hundreds of people in the rain and cold for over an hour. That is, the safest way to vote is by mail or drop off at a ballot box (assuming no massive lines as will likely happen in Texas where they have limited such boxes to 1 per county).

The push for mail in voting is to try to reduce the probability of a coronovirus spike caused by large crowds at the polls on election day, and to give more people the opportunity to vote when because of the pandemic they would not feel safe going to the polls.

[seanD]

MIV - you mean the effort to register more immigrant voters? Are you kidding?

You are ignorant because you ignore the fact Trump purposefully sabotaged the USPS prior to the election. Again, to do what they did before an election that would require more mail-in ballots than ever before was sabotage. Treason really - because one of the fundamental bull works of our freedom and our nation is confidence in a secure and free election process. And Trump has spared no expense and left no stone unturned in his efforts to make sure this election is the most difficult and insecure in history.

You are ignorant in that no matter what efforts are taken to reduce the possibility of spread at the polls, in person voting is not 'safe' even though what can be done to make it 'safer' is being done. The safest way to vote is to not be in a room with 30 other people marking their ballots, or in line with hundreds of people in the rain and cold for over an hour. That is, the safest way to vote is by mail or drop off at a ballot box (assuming no massive lines as will likely happen in Texas where they have limited such boxes to 1 per county).

The push for mail in voting is to try to reduce the probability of a coronovirus spike caused by large crowds at the polls on election day, and to give more people the opportunity to vote when because of the pandemic they would not feel safe going to the polls.

Oh I see. You want us to not listen to the science experts on covid when it doesn't work in your political favor. Got it. I expected that because you're partisan hack.

If you can have a bunch of folks in a supermarket wearing masks, and that's fine, then you could have a bunch of folks in polling stations wearing masks just the same. A system that was inevitably rife with complications (like we're seeing now), including, as you argue, a conspiracy between Trump and postmaster to disrupt the election, yet the Dems still insisted on this system anyway. How does that make sense?

MIV = mail-in voting. Guess I should have put that in parenthesis for you.

[oxmixmudd]

Oh I see. You want us to not listen to the science experts on covid when it doesn't work in your political favor. Got it. I expected that because you're partisan hack.

Don't be ridiculous. Voting in person at a poll is not completely safe. But we do know better NOW how to make it safer than we did when the initial thrust for mail in voting began.

Consider this text under the banner "is voting in person safe? Yes - as long as ...."

https://www.cnet.com/health/is-votin...e-precautions/

Source: above

Staying safe at the polls


If you're not voting early or with mail-in ballots, keep reading below for tips on how to stay safe if you're voting in-person at the polls this year.
Vote at off-peak hours to avoid lines


One situation you want to avoid is getting stuck inside (where air can't circulate well) in a line with lots of people. Hopefully, voting sites will enforce social distancing in lines, which helps, but standing in a line indoors for extended periods can create risk.

"The greatest risk for spread will come as it does with all other respiratory viruses like the common cold and the flu. It'll be when you are standing in a line while indoors, just like grocery shopping, security at the airport and renewing your license at the DMV," Tetro says.

Ideally, polling places will take extra measures to ensure safety, like placing barriers in between voting stations, limiting the number of people inside a voting area, and improving ventilation in voting locations.
Wear your mask and social distance

Wearing a face mask and keeping your distance at the polls can help protect you from the coronavirus.

Getty Images
Voting safety really hinges on everyone doing their part and wearing masks -- this includes others voting near you and the poll workers, too. Health authorities believe this is one of the best ways to prevent the spread of the virus and keep yourself safe. "The key to preventing any respiratory infectious disease is protection of the airway. Obviously the most effective way to accomplish this is barrier protection in the form of a face mask or shield," Tetro says.

In addition to wearing a mask or shield, remember to keep your distance when possible. Stand at least 6 feet away from others at all times, even if you are in line or voting. This could be tricky when you have to interact with poll-workers, but it's possible that there will be some barrier in place to protect them and yourself -- like many grocery stores are doing at check-out counters.
Practice good hand hygiene


Good hand hygiene habits are going to be important for a long time -- so be sure to practice them when you vote, too. You may have to touch screens, pens, paper and door handles when you vote -- and likely many people have touched them before you. Be sure to either wear gloves or immediately wash your hands and use hand sanitizer after touching these items.

Even if poll workers are wiping down these items regularly, you never know how often they are being cleaned, and you should stay on top of hygiene to protect yourself and others.

© Copyright Original Source

So it's 'safe' - with all the above qualifications and reminders and warnings.

No one is suggesting voting in person is completely safe, except maybe some idiot in the Trump administration or online pushing misinformation about covid.

If you can have a bunch of folks in a supermarket wearing masks, and that's fine,

It is necessary, but it is not 'fine'. We know someone whose relative caught the virus at a grocery store wearing a mask and subsequently died. It is not SAFE, but we do what we can to make it as safe as possible because we do after all need to eat and not eating will kill you just as dead as COVID. And many of us, especially those in the more vulnerable groups because of age or pre-existing conditions, go to the grocery store in person only rarely, using order pickup instead. It helps that I live in a state that is better than most wrt controlling the virus.

then you could have a bunch of folks in polling stations wearing masks just the same. A system that was inevitably rife with complications (like we're seeing now), including, as you argue, a conspiracy between Trump and postmaster to disrupt the election, yet the Dems still insisted on this system anyway. How does that make sense?

The system already exists. The point is to leverage it to allow people to avoid the risk of going to the polls. Which would have worked quite well if Trump et al had not sabotaged the USPS.

MIV = mail-in voting. Guess I should have put that in parenthesis for you.

Well yes - since MIV has an official designation with a history since 2005 and you are not using it to mean that.

MIV = Mobilize the Immigrant Vote and is active in California.

https://www.equalityfederation.org/2...mmigrant-vote/

[seanD]

Don't be ridiculous. Voting in person at a poll is not completely safe. But we do know better NOW how to make it safer than we did when the initial thrust for mail in voting began.



It is necessary, but it is not 'fine'. We know someone whose relative caught the virus at a grocery store wearing a mask and subsequently died. It is not SAFE, but we do what we can to make it as safe as possible because we do after all need to eat and not eating will kill you just as dead as COVID. And many of us, especially those in the more vulnerable groups because of age or pre-existing conditions, go to the grocery store in person only rarely, using order pickup instead. It helps that I live in a state that is better than most wrt controlling the virus.



The system already exists. The point is to leverage it to allow people to avoid the risk of going to the polls. Which would have worked quite well if Trump et al had not sabotaged the USPS.





Well yes - since MIV has an official designation with a history since 2005 and you are not using it to mean that.

MIV = Mobilize the Immigrant Vote and is active in California.

https://www.equalityfederation.org/2...mmigrant-vote/

Where did I say voting in-person is "completely" safe? I don't see that anywhere in the post you quoted. The experts told us it can be done safely. It can be done following the same guidelines we use like shopping. We have incidences of ballot fraud by the Dems, so we know this can and will happen..Trump and the postmaster, as you claim, are engaged in a conspiracy to disrupt the process, and the Dems know this. The risk is obviously not worth the reward, especially when guidelines can be followed to reduce the risk. Yet the Dems still insisted on this chaotic system anyway. That makes absolutely no sense, unless they wanted the chaos.