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New Zealand concentration camps

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  • #16
    Originally posted by casaba View Post
    My first question is: Does anybody take this news source, Natural News, seriously?
    A sizable number, and possibly a majority, of Trump supporters believe that Hillary Clinton is a Satan worshiping cannibalistic pedophile murderer, so I suspect believing that New Zealand is full of concentration camps is not much of a reach for them.
    "The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." - P. J. O'Rourke

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Reepicheep View Post
      In addition, NZ is the location of Middle Earth, and you Kiwis keep putting up great haka videos on youtube.
      I seem to recall one of the other conspiracy theories the crazies had a while back went "UN something something Agenda 21 something something Put people in hobbit holes". We've definitely got movie sets with the outsides of hobbit holes which I've been to visit (they don't have insides unfortunately, that was filmed elsewhere). So the crazies should have just stuck with weird claims about putting people in hobbit holes. It would have made more sense than death camps. Possibly we have death-metal camps though, I dunno.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        I seem to recall one of the other conspiracy theories the crazies had a while back went "UN something something Agenda 21 something something Put people in hobbit holes".
        I thought I knew of most of the right wing/Trumpian/Tea Party conspiracy theories, but that is a new one to me. A google search reveals that, not only is this particular conspiracy theory still going strong, it has been revealed that the coronavirus is the mechanism the Totalitarian World Government is using to bring about the implementation of Agenda 21.

        Personally, I'm quite looking forward to living in a hobbit hole, although at 6' 2" tall I suspect I'll be banging my head a lot.

        https://www.buzzfeed.com/joeydurso/c...s-agenda-21-5g
        "The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." - P. J. O'Rourke

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Just to be clear, by 'lock up' in the context of NZ quarantine, you're referring to a taxpayer-funded hotel stay (or taxpayer funded hospital stay if they're sick enough to need it) until they're better.

          It's New Zealand or NZ, not zland, just like it's the US or America not ustates or samerica.

          Sweden and NZ are generally pretty similar countries in many respects. Both smallish liberal democracies that lean progressive and somewhat libertarian and a little bit socialistic. They've just taken somewhat different approaches to Covid - NZ opted to try and keep it out of the country completely via border closures and lockdowns if necessary. That's generally been very successful, and most people around the world seem to quite reasonably regard NZ as the world's Covid success-story. The all-cause mortality rate in NZ in 2020 has been way lower than usual years, because not only do we seem to have kept Covid out, we've also apparently kept out the flu too, which has resulted in many fewer-than-normal deaths. Sweden on the other hand, in spite of their attempts to have social distancing, hasn't done very well with respect to covid cases and deaths and their approach to Covid seems to be generally viewed as a policy failure.

          I wasn't quite sure what you meant here by New Zealand's latest move. But looking at the article (which is a month and a half old), I think you might be referring to the idea of moving a few people into the quarantine facilities who had been exposed to Covid infection that had slipped past the border security? Again, it's a fully-funded 1-3 week hotel stay for them until they test negative / recover. And the numbers we are talking about here are in terms of compulsory quarantining of exposed people in the community are like ~50 people total.

          Whereas the number of people in the border hotel quarantine facilities at any given time - i.e. people who chose to enter the country knowing they would have to spend 2 weeks in a hotel - is ~5000 at any given time.

          Good luck finding enough hotel rooms for that many people and good luck paying for it. I imagine there's a lot of people on the streets of those cities who'd love to be shouted a luxury hotel stay with food included, so if you're feeling rich and charitable, I'm sure there's demand.
          Well I guess Chicago, LA and NY are just out of luck then. If only we can all be like zealand. lol

          They are zealand camps, so what do we care? We just look to the latest liberal tactics and expect dingbat liberals here to take up the cause.

          Maybe Joey can use his magical liberal powers to make it happen?

          ​​​​​​

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            Just to be clear, by 'lock up' in the context of NZ quarantine, you're referring to a taxpayer-funded hotel stay (or taxpayer funded hospital stay if they're sick enough to need it) until they're better.
            So you are saying that they ARE forcing people who have COVID into mandatory quarantine in government controlled facilities, rather than letting them stay at home? That sound's like overreach to me. Maybe not death camps but still extreme. If someone is sick enough they should be in a hospital, and if not, they should just stay home. If they want to offer the hotels as optional (so you don't infect your family) that would be one thing but mandatory lockup? yeesh.




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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              So you are saying that they ARE forcing people who have COVID into mandatory quarantine in government controlled facilities, rather than letting them stay at home? That sound's like overreach to me. Maybe not death camps but still extreme. If someone is sick enough they should be in a hospital, and if not, they should just stay home. If they want to offer the hotels as optional (so you don't infect your family) that would be one thing but mandatory lockup? yeesh.
              I'm often shocked at how willing some people are to surrender their essential liberties to the government in exchange for the promise of a little temporary safety.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                I'm often shocked at how willing some people are to surrender their essential liberties to the government in exchange for the promise of a little temporary safety.
                From what I have read there are only a handful of people who are COVID positive in NZ anyway, Seems like going on mandatory quarantine at an isolated facility, even if it is a hotel, is over-reacting.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Reepicheep View Post

                  I thought I knew of most of the right wing/Trumpian/Tea Party conspiracy theories, but that is a new one to me. A google search reveals that, not only is this particular conspiracy theory still going strong, it has been revealed that the coronavirus is the mechanism the Totalitarian World Government is using to bring about the implementation of Agenda 21.

                  Personally, I'm quite looking forward to living in a hobbit hole, although at 6' 2" tall I suspect I'll be banging my head a lot.

                  https://www.buzzfeed.com/joeydurso/c...s-agenda-21-5g
                  Like Gandalf when he visited Bilbo and Frodo in the first movie?
                  America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Just to be clear, by 'lock up' in the context of NZ quarantine, you're referring to a taxpayer-funded hotel stay (or taxpayer funded hospital stay if they're sick enough to need it) until they're better.

                    It's New Zealand or NZ, not zland, just like it's the US or America not ustates or samerica.

                    Sweden and NZ are generally pretty similar countries in many respects. Both smallish liberal democracies that lean progressive and somewhat libertarian and a little bit socialistic. They've just taken somewhat different approaches to Covid - NZ opted to try and keep it out of the country completely via border closures and lockdowns if necessary. That's generally been very successful, and most people around the world seem to quite reasonably regard NZ as the world's Covid success-story. The all-cause mortality rate in NZ in 2020 has been way lower than usual years, because not only do we seem to have kept Covid out, we've also apparently kept out the flu too, which has resulted in many fewer-than-normal deaths. Sweden on the other hand, in spite of their attempts to have social distancing, hasn't done very well with respect to covid cases and deaths and their approach to Covid seems to be generally viewed as a policy failure.

                    I wasn't quite sure what you meant here by New Zealand's latest move. But looking at the article (which is a month and a half old), I think you might be referring to the idea of moving a few people into the quarantine facilities who had been exposed to Covid infection that had slipped past the border security? Again, it's a fully-funded 1-3 week hotel stay for them until they test negative / recover. And the numbers we are talking about here are in terms of compulsory quarantining of exposed people in the community are like ~50 people total.

                    Whereas the number of people in the border hotel quarantine facilities at any given time - i.e. people who chose to enter the country knowing they would have to spend 2 weeks in a hotel - is ~5000 at any given time.

                    Good luck finding enough hotel rooms for that many people and good luck paying for it. I imagine there's a lot of people on the streets of those cities who'd love to be shouted a luxury hotel stay with food included, so if you're feeling rich and charitable, I'm sure there's demand.
                    Bear in mind that these are American 'conservatives' here. They're not famous for rationality and are bound to see any government action as overreach. I'm honestly surprised they haven't started whining about things like drivers' licenses as taking away their freedom.
                    America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      I'm often shocked at how willing some people are to surrender their essential liberties to the government in exchange for the promise of a little temporary safety.
                      I just don't allow myself to be shocked anymore by the blind tendencies of the left. They can't see past the next news cycle.

                      You would think they would look at what Harry Reid did, and think it was a bad idea to touch the filibuster. Or that a Republican President in the future could put through another additional dozen conservative justices to the court, just because they can.

                      It's like petulant folly.

                      The reasons those types of things were in place was because those in the past were smarter than them. They think they are the smartest people who have ever lived. They have become dumber and short sighted.

                      The only good thing to come from this election is separating the socialists from the rest of us, a clear delineation. People have no excuse to be ignorant anymore. If you vote for Democrats, then you vote for socialism, whether people like it or not.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        I'm often shocked at how willing some people are to surrender their essential liberties to the government in exchange for the promise of a little temporary safety.
                        Liberals used to be against government authoritarianism, but for some reason they embrace these actions all because it's a partisan tribal thing now. They hate police on one hand, but love the police state lockdown and government mandates because it's a win for "their team."
                        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          From what I have read there are only a handful of people who are COVID positive in NZ anyway, Seems like going on mandatory quarantine at an isolated facility, even if it is a hotel, is over-reacting.
                          How about the idea that the reason that there are so few cases in NZ is that they force quarantine those who test positive rather that depend on the honor system that people will stay home with no visitors? If so, is this admitted intrusion on personal liberty unwarranted? Seems like a valid point of discussion.

                          An aside, back to me lamenting on how fractured discussion here has become: I remember discussing items here with you, Sparko, 12 or 13 years ago, and there was honest discussion. Sure, there were some headcases (sorry, but I see Mountain Man is still here) but discussion was possible. Here, now, in this thread, there are two separate chats in progress: Rightists (in my opinion, unfounded) complaints that the NZ approach is unacceptable, and Leftists cracking jokes together and each side calling the other names. Not sure how long I'll stick around.



                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by casaba View Post

                            How about the idea that the reason that there are so few cases in NZ is that they force quarantine those who test positive rather that depend on the honor system that people will stay home with no visitors? If so, is this admitted intrusion on personal liberty unwarranted? Seems like a valid point of discussion.

                            An aside, back to me lamenting on how fractured discussion here has become: I remember discussing items here with you, Sparko, 12 or 13 years ago, and there was honest discussion. Sure, there were some headcases (sorry, but I see Mountain Man is still here) but discussion was possible. Here, now, in this thread, there are two separate chats in progress: Rightists (in my opinion, unfounded) complaints that the NZ approach is unacceptable, and Leftists cracking jokes together and each side calling the other names. Not sure how long I'll stick around.


                            It's gotten bad, but it just reflects what we're seeing in the country on a larger scale, especially in Washington. Washington is pretty much paralyzed by political tribalism and anti-Trumpism (though perhaps that's a good thing).
                            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              We have crowds like that here in the US. They're called super spreader events.
                              Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                              fify
                              Those were the "peaceful" riots we've been experiencing.

                              If you look at the graphs of cases you'll start seeing a sharp spike in the number of cases 2 to 3 weeks after they started. And coincidentally the group which experienced a tremendous increase in the number of cases just happened to be among the same age group that most of the rioters just happened to be.

                              Aren't sheer coincidences grand?

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                So you are saying that they ARE forcing people who have COVID into mandatory quarantine in government controlled facilities, rather than letting them stay at home?
                                There's been changes in this over time depending on the number of people with Covid in the country. Near the start of the pandemic there were heaps of people who caught it, because the government didn't get the borders shut in time, and it required lockdowns to eliminate from the country. Now you can foam at the mouth that lockdowns are a totalitarian action of a dictator state if you like, but the result was saving thousands of lives and having a country that was covid free which has been great economically and socially.

                                Once the number of people with Covid was zero, and the borders were shut (to humans, mostly, except those going through quarantine), then, on an occasion where Covid got caught by someone working at the border (on imported goods I think it was) and passed onto a few friends and family and this small outbreak was detected, a decision was made by local equivalent of Dr Fauci to move those people to a guarded hotel. This decision was made basically because the government has learned over the course of this pandemic that people can't be trusted to do what's asked of them with regard to self-isolating, and they will always think of a reason some exception applies to them about why they totally need to just pop out to the supermarket or to a liquor store or just go to one funeral or something. A law here that has its origins in the days of the bubonic plague of the 19th century gives the chief medical office the power to order the quarantining of individuals in the event of a declared pandemic. In that sense it's not the politicians doing it, it 's a doctor doing it, and ordering their quarantining on medical grounds, if that makes you feel any differently on the subject. It's not the elected politicians giving themselves new totalitarian powers and chucking "muhuhuhahaha".

                                That sound's like overreach to me.
                                Obviously in an American context it wouldn't make any sense to do because so many people have it that putting a handful of infected people into quarantine would be bizarre and achieve nothing.

                                Remember this is happening against a background of zero cases in the country and people living their lives as normal. Your choice then becomes do you (a) let a few infected people infect the rest and have thousands of people die? or (b) quarantine the handful of infected people, and give them a cushy taxpayer funded hotel room and food for a couple of weeks? Perhaps it depends how much you value life over absolute free choice. I wouldn't have thought a "pro-life" person such as yourself would take a pro-choice position on this issue. But then, I would say that New Zealand as a whole is a country that values life very highly (and we see that in anti-war positions, no death penalty, assault weapons ban, police not routinely armed, government-funded healthcare etc) and that America doesn't (e.g. flip the previous positions for the US).

                                Maybe not death camps but still extreme.
                                Maybe not death camps? But close? Just without the deaths? And without the camps?

                                If someone is sick enough they should be in a hospital, and if not, they should just stay home.
                                That makes sense in the US where you have so many cases. When we had 1-2 cases here they tried that approach, plus tried some police guarding the house to make sure they did stay home and didn't go out and infect others. They didn't find that worked well, and it didn't scale well where a handful of different households had infections.

                                If they want to offer the hotels as optional (so you don't infect your family) that would be one thing but mandatory lockup? yeesh.
                                You say that about 1-2 weeks in a literal hotel room. Yet you're a country that has prison sentences whose length people here would regard as barbaric in length, and prison conditions so bad that other Western countries have refused to extradite prisoners to you on the grounds their human rights would be violated by your awful prisons. So you're not in any position whatsoever to suggest a couple of week hotel stay is horrible or inhumane.
                                Last edited by Starlight; 10-28-2020, 05:06 PM.

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