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New Zealand concentration camps

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  • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Domestic violence increased under lockdowns, even in New Zealand (and today I learned even before your lockdown, NZ has one of the highest rates of sexual and domestic violence in developed countries....): https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...own-takes-toll

    Suicides and suicidal tendencies increased in many places under lockdowns: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ir-and-suicide

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4095

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...s-on-the-rise/

    And we're only just starting to see the after-effects of the lockdown on people who were refused cancer treatment, surgeries, etc., due to the lockdowns and their restrictions on hospital procedures:
    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...ancersurgeries
    Kudos to New Zealand then, for being able to keep their healthcare system from being overwhelmed without having to resort to periodic lockdowns.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

      Here's some more up-to-date information for you...
      Yes, I've read that, and the fact remains, there are no definitive cases of someone contracting the China flu simply because they walked past an infected person in a grocery store, and studies show that such an occurrence is rare to the point that you probably have a better chance of walking outside that same store and getting struck by lightening.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post

        It’s relevant here.
        Then look to the US Supreme Court to rule on the constitutionality of laws passed by the legislature, and that will keep you on track in our form of governance. The powers of these govenor's in their declarative lockdown rules are being limited by their own state supreme courts, like in Michigan, let alone the federal court.

        I am comfident New Zealand type laws could not stand constitutional muster in the US, and that's a good thing, the US is not like other countries.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Yes, I've read that, and the fact remains, there are no definitive cases of someone contracting the China flu simply because they walked past an infected person in a grocery store, and studies show that such an occurrence is rare to the point that you probably have a better chance of walking outside that same store and getting struck by lightening.
          If both people are wearing masks, you are probably correct.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

            If both people are wearing masks, you are probably correct.
            It's correct even without face diapers.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post
              Then look to the US Supreme Court to rule on the constitutionality of laws passed by the legislature, and that will keep you on track in our form of governance. The powers of these govenor's in their declarative lockdown rules are being limited by their own state supreme courts, like in Michigan, let alone the federal court.
              Lockdowns are perfectly constitutional if the legislature allows them.

              I am comfident New Zealand type laws could not stand constitutional muster in the US, and that's a good thing, the US is not like other countries.
              I haven't seen anything that New Zealand has done, that couldn't have been done in the US, given adequate leadership.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                Kudos to New Zealand then, for being able to keep their healthcare system from being overwhelmed without having to resort to periodic lockdowns.
                I mean, so has most of the US, but okay.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  It's correct even without face diapers.
                  You really should educate yourself.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                    Lockdowns are perfectly constitutional if the legislature allows them.
                    Which is exactly why the Michigan governor lost in the courts.

                    I haven't seen anything that New Zealand has done, that couldn't have been done in the US, given adequate leadership.
                    Forced detainment from a Michigan governor is poor leadership, and going against Michigan law, as adjudicated by the Michigan Supreme Court, ruling her leadership decisions unconstitutional. I prefer constitutional leadership.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                      There is a human behind every article written. All sources are people, even biased ones like yours and others. I read facts of the story, and spin my own tale about it.

                      ​​​​​There are plenty of sources for this information, without the hyperbole. It's not necessary to poison wells when the largest wells are wholly poisoned.
                      Are you one of those QAnon nutters we hear about?

                      if you are, I will send you a link to the Hislop interview. Would help you get a bit more grounded in reality.
                      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                      “not all there” - you know who you are

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                        Which is exactly why the Michigan governor lost in the courts.

                        Forced detainment from a Michigan governor is poor leadership, and going against Michigan law, as adjudicated by the Michigan Supreme Court, ruling her leadership decisions unconstitutional. I prefer constitutional leadership.
                        I was referring to adequate leadership at the federal level.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          I was referring to adequate leadership at the federal level.
                          Adequate leadership at the federal level cannot penetrate the state level in this way. These federal agencies can use policy and federal money to try to get states to do their bidding, but in the end it is up to the states. That's why some are open, and some are shut at varying levels.

                          Trump can no more send in the military to squelch rioting in these states, then he can force all souls in a state to stay home. The federal system just doesn't work like that and you likely know it.

                          You would only see states fighting against federal overreaching, end up in the Supreme Court, and the states would win.

                          The president can only do what the law allows, he is quite limited, and "leadership" that just scolds people to stay home is not leadership, it is political. Like Joe.

                          Let medical science do what it does and don't believe politicians, the medical solution will happen when it happens.
                          Last edited by Maranatha; 11-01-2020, 11:23 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                            I mean, so has most of the US, but okay.
                            We're going to continue to have periodic lockdowns in portions of the US, for the foreseeable future, in order to keep hospitals from overflowing. And I don't think there is any part of the US that can claim with any credibility that it can't happen there.

                            I don't think it had to be that way. New Zealand has avoided it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                              Adequate leadership at the federal level cannot penetrate the state level in this way. These federal agencies can use policy and federal money to try to get states to do their bidding, but in the end it is up to the states. That's why some are open, and some are shut at varying levels.

                              Trump can no more send in the military to squelch rioting in these states, then he can force all souls in a state to stay home. The federal system just doesn't work like that and you likely know it.

                              You would only see states fighting against federal overreaching, end up in the Supreme Court, and the states would win.

                              The president can only do what the law allows, he is quite limited, and "leadership" that just scolds people to stay home is not leadership, it is political. Like Joe.

                              Let medical science do what it does and don't believe politicians, the medical solution will happen when it happens.
                              Adequate leadership would consist of providing accurate information, and adequate resources, so that states could do what was needed. I doubt that most states would have chosen to let so many people die.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                                Then look to the US Supreme Court to rule on the constitutionality of laws passed by the legislature, and that will keep you on track in our form of governance. The powers of these govenor's in their declarative lockdown rules are being limited by their own state supreme courts, like in Michigan, let alone the federal court.

                                I am comfident New Zealand type laws could not stand constitutional muster in the US, and that's a good thing, the US is not like other countries.
                                No, it's not. It has many more people dying of Covid than other countries. Aren't you proud?
                                America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                                Comment

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