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Coronavirus after the election.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
    So, here's my prediction about coronavirus after the election.

    First, I expect Biden to win. It's not a sure thing, but it's pretty close. The chances of Trump beating the odds two elections in a row are rather slim.

    So, what happens?

    Well, as long as Trump is in office, nothing happens. We keep hearing about how bad it is, how dangerous, etc. There's pushes to "do more" etc. Then, comes January. That's when things will change. Pushes from Biden are pushed as necessary and the coverage changes from "not enough" to "hopeful" and "working". Then quietly, the daily reports of cases, deaths, counts, etc. fade into the background. The news doesn't cover it. Activists and politicians just let it go quietly. Without it being harped day after day, it no longer becomes an albatross of doom and gloom.

    All of this, will happen regardless of what actually happens with the virus.
    This is based on the assumption the virus or its danger is some sort of hoax or being overplayed. It's not. It also assumes the news media's reporting on it is or is primarily driven by criticism of Trump. And that is backwards from the reality*. It's impact on the country - unfortunately and fueled by the sort of intrinsic denial this post is - is growing. We are back in the 70,000 new cases per day territory, and the 7 day peak for deaths was over 1000 last week with the trend overall up (understanding deaths lag new cases by about 3 weeks). COVID-19 is NOT an artificially inflated danger to us. It is real, with a mortality at least 10X that of the normal flu, and a communicability 2 to 3x that of the flu. Of the 6,000,000+ cases with an outcome, over 230,000 of them died. That is a mortality of ~4%. If you actually buy into the idea hospitals benefitting from declaring covid deaths has somehow inflated the numbers to the point 1 in 2 are somehow less covid and more 'something else', was are still looking a 2%. 20x the flu.

    If those of you tending toward Trump or Trumpism continue to propagate foolishness like this, the virus' impact out our country will continue to grow. And when you finally figure out it's not a hoax or somehow overplayed, it will be too late for a very large number of people (it already is actually). Chris Christie had to get gravely ill for him to figure it out. Others figured it out on their deathbeds. Isn't it time to stop listening to politics on the virus and time to start listening to those that are motivated by science and knowledge and independent of political party, like Fauci and others?

    The virus will still be here after the election. By the current trend worse than it has ever been in this country.

    *the virus is bad, and Trumps mismanagement to the tune of hundreds of thousands of deaths demands criticism.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-27-2020, 01:43 PM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Statements like this seem crazy to me because:
      1) all these measure are temporary so anyone who actually wanted more government permanently isn't getting what they want
      2) you make it sound as if there's people out there who get high off the idea of having the government be authoritarian or having wet dreams over it or somesuch, which just seems nuts on your part because such people not only don't exist but the fact that you are weirdly imagining they do is very strange on your part.

      My view is that consistently throughout history the greatest problem has always been the corrupt elites. They have always tried to selfishly hoard for themselves all the money and all the power. Nearly all historical systems in almost every time and country have had the corrupt elites running everything and everybody else dirt poor and powerless. The only system that has ever managed to fairly consistently change that is democracy. A government of the people, by the people, for the people, has historically provided the only tool for use against and reining in those corrupt elites and forcibly policing them and stopping them trampling and extorting everybody else and having everybody work for them and give obeisance to them. So those corrupt elites hate a properly functioning democratic government that truly represents all the people, because it's the one force in society that can limit their power, that can stop them using and abusing others, that can come after the wealth they inherited and have hoarded for themselves. So they want nothing more than to try to control it, bribe it, sabotage it, wreck it, deconstruct it, deregulate it, and propagandize people into believing that it's the government that's terrible and even the idea of having a government is terrible, and that it's totally the government and not themselves who's the nasty authoritarian. If they can even completely destroy the government, they will simply collapse the system back into feudalism where they will be able to be feudal Lords, and they will employ people to be their bodyguards and militias and forcibly rule over the surfs around them because there is no longer any power capable of stopping them doing so. Don't buy their propaganda. They'd like you to believe that the only entity in our society that can police them is the real bad guy, so that they can rule over you.


      So, it would be terrible if they followed the science on covid, followed leading economic theories on spending, reenacted a historically famously popular and successful US government program, and focused on mitigating risks of climate change? Sounds "terrible".

      The sad thing is Biden and Harris would not do a tenth of any of that. They are run of the mill corporatist centrists. The hope and change is all rhetorical, and unlike Obama, they're barely even bothering with any hope or change rhetoric.
      Just to show how much nonsense you can spew out in one post (aren't you capable of writing succinctly?!), you actually contradicted yourself. On one hand you say no one wants government authoritarianism (which is absolute joke), on the other hand you proposed a conspiracy theory about elites hording power and wealth. Your latter argument confirms the former. How do you think government establishment elites and career politicians like Obama, Clinton, Biden, Pelosi, et al. gain wealth and become elites? How do you think the wealthy elites like the Bezos and the Gates and the top 10% that own the market now are gaining even more wealth in the midst of a pandemic and everyone else on the bottom suffering? Exploitation of government power. You can't even get your argument straight even when you spend long worded diatribes to do it.

      Comment


      • #18
        I suppose ox's point is that nobody would choose an oppressive government, but paradoxically, liberals support policies that will inevitably lead to government oppression.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
          So, here's my prediction about coronavirus after the election.

          First, I expect Biden to win. It's not a sure thing, but it's pretty close. The chances of Trump beating the odds two elections in a row are rather slim.

          So, what happens?

          Well, as long as Trump is in office, nothing happens. We keep hearing about how bad it is, how dangerous, etc. There's pushes to "do more" etc. Then, comes January. That's when things will change. Pushes from Biden are pushed as necessary and the coverage changes from "not enough" to "hopeful" and "working". Then quietly, the daily reports of cases, deaths, counts, etc. fade into the background. The news doesn't cover it. Activists and politicians just let it go quietly. Without it being harped day after day, it no longer becomes an albatross of doom and gloom.

          All of this, will happen regardless of what actually happens with the virus.
          Could be. I think the China Virus is a hammer, and they will find nails.

          I wouldn't put anything past them.

          You would think a President would want a strong economy, to put this past them, but I don't see rationality from the left. I look for it to be cover for all kinds of marxist improvements.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

            Could be. I think the China Virus is a hammer, and they will find nails.

            I wouldn't put anything past them.

            You would think a President would want a strong economy, to put this past them, but I don't see rationality from the left. I look for it to be cover for all kinds of marxist improvements.
            That you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Do you not realise that just as you don't see something from the left, half of the country doesn't see it from the right?
            America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
              That you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
              That is a funny statement coming from on an atheist.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                That is a funny statement coming from on an atheist.
                That's a funny evasion of my entire post.
                America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  you proposed a conspiracy theory about elites hording power and wealth.
                  It's not a conspiracy theory that there are wealthy and powerful individuals in our society.

                  The vast majority of them didn't get their power and wealth via the government: They got it via inheritance and mega-companies.

                  Your underlying assumption that the government is how elites get their power and money is simply false. A tiny number do. But the Bezos and the Gates of this world have never worked in government and have instead been able to make billions via the 'free market'.

                  The government doesn't create those elites, but it's the one tool that our society has that can police them and limit their power and control their excesses. That's why the corrupt elites, who have inherited their wealth or gained it through exploitative practices on a free market, hate a functioning democratic government, because it's the only thing in society that the common man has to rein in their power and corruption.

                  How do you think government establishment elites and career politicians like Obama, Clinton, Biden, Pelosi, et al. gain wealth and become elites?
                  Those are pathetically small fish at best, sucking at the teats of the real corrupt elites. Such people aren't the fundamental problem, just a symptom of the current corruption in the system where the elites are able to buy politicians.

                  You can't even get your argument straight even when you spend long worded diatribes to do it.
                  My argument is perfectly straight, you just keep reinserting your totally bonkers assumption that government is what causes the existence of corrupt elites in the first place. It absolutely doesn't. Look at history and in any society you see these same corrupt elites exploiting others, and it wasn't government that created them. Government is the restraining force on them, the only entity in society with the power to stand up to them and their criminal behaviours and rein them in, and so they respond by trying to corrupt it, destroy it, undermine it, or buy it, as much as possible so their selfishness can continue.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    The general view of people in my country who observe US politics is that US media is too friendly to Republicans, and way too anti-Progressive.
                    From where you're at, I imagine things here look upside down.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                      So, here's my prediction about coronavirus after the election.

                      First, I expect Biden to win. It's not a sure thing, but it's pretty close. The chances of Trump beating the odds two elections in a row are rather slim.

                      So, what happens?

                      Well, as long as Trump is in office, nothing happens. We keep hearing about how bad it is, how dangerous, etc. There's pushes to "do more" etc. Then, comes January. That's when things will change. Pushes from Biden are pushed as necessary and the coverage changes from "not enough" to "hopeful" and "working". Then quietly, the daily reports of cases, deaths, counts, etc. fade into the background. The news doesn't cover it. Activists and politicians just let it go quietly. Without it being harped day after day, it no longer becomes an albatross of doom and gloom.

                      All of this, will happen regardless of what actually happens with the virus.
                      That will happen anyway because the virus will weaken and become less newsworthy.

                      I'm not so sure anymore that Trump will lose. He's getting a little momentum at the 11th hour. One can only hope there will be enough time ....

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        It's not a conspiracy theory that there are wealthy and powerful individuals in our society.

                        The vast majority of them didn't get their power and wealth via the government: They got it via inheritance and mega-companies.

                        Your underlying assumption that the government is how elites get their power and money is simply false. A tiny number do. But the Bezos and the Gates of this world have never worked in government and have instead been able to make billions via the 'free market'.

                        The government doesn't create those elites, but it's the one tool that our society has that can police them and limit their power and control their excesses. That's why the corrupt elites, who have inherited their wealth or gained it through exploitative practices on a free market, hate a functioning democratic government, because it's the only thing in society that the common man has to rein in their power and corruption.

                        Those are pathetically small fish at best, sucking at the teats of the real corrupt elites. Such people aren't the fundamental problem, just a symptom of the current corruption in the system where the elites are able to buy politicians.

                        My argument is perfectly straight, you just keep reinserting your totally bonkers assumption that government is what causes the existence of corrupt elites in the first place. It absolutely doesn't. Look at history and in any society you see these same corrupt elites exploiting others, and it wasn't government that created them. Government is the restraining force on them, the only entity in society with the power to stand up to them and their criminal behaviours and rein them in, and so they respond by trying to corrupt it, destroy it, undermine it, or buy it, as much as possible so their selfishness can continue.
                        It's only bonkers because you have no idea what you're talking about. Most socialist countries (real socialist countries, not the fake ones you always claim in the EU that are mixed economies at best) always end up with the wealthy and powerful dictators, while the rest of society suffers poverty, and their country rots into a third world hellhole. But putting that aside, it's simple, you obviously don't understand what the federal reserve is, so I should have considered your ignorance about the subject. I try and explain it the best I can to folks... to no avail I guess. America is a socialist country with a debt of almost 30 trillion. I wouldn't even say we're a mixed economy anymore considering what our central bank has done in the last decade. I never said the Gates and Bezos of the world work for government, but they didn't make their billions in a free market either. A free market capitalist system doesn't exist in America where GOVERNMENT gives these companies subsidies and tax loopholes, in addition to a CENTRAL BANK (government) bailing out the stock market during depressions and recessions in the last decade, and keeping mega corporations like theirs in profit by buying their debt (bonds, derivatives, ETFs, etc.). I'm not sure what you'd call that, but that is anything BUT a free market, and since the federal reserve is considered part of government, that is government and it's the reason we have gross wealth imbalances in America today. In a free market, many mega corporations would have died in the last two recessions, but thanks to government (the federal reserve) they still exist and are thriving during a pandemic and global depression like never before. That's not free market, genius, that's GOVERNMENT for you.

                        And I would ask the courtesy of not omitting swaths of my post if you respond. I don't omit yours, so don't omit mine. Thanks.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                          So, here's my prediction about coronavirus after the election.

                          First, I expect Biden to win. It's not a sure thing, but it's pretty close. The chances of Trump beating the odds two elections in a row are rather slim.

                          So, what happens?

                          Well, as long as Trump is in office, nothing happens. We keep hearing about how bad it is, how dangerous, etc. There's pushes to "do more" etc. Then, comes January. That's when things will change. Pushes from Biden are pushed as necessary and the coverage changes from "not enough" to "hopeful" and "working". Then quietly, the daily reports of cases, deaths, counts, etc. fade into the background. The news doesn't cover it. Activists and politicians just let it go quietly. Without it being harped day after day, it no longer becomes an albatross of doom and gloom.

                          All of this, will happen regardless of what actually happens with the virus.
                          My prediction is that things will get worse before they get better. A lot of places will have to adopt new restrictions to slow the spread of the virus, or accept healthcare facilities being overrun and the number of deaths skyrocketing. This will probably continue until April or May, when the combination of warmer weather and (hopefully) a vaccine will bring some relief. With luck, new treatments will further reduce the death rate in the meantime.

                          As for the news coverage, I expect to continue to see stories when things are getting worse, and when things start to get better. If things get better for long enough, then I agree that coverage of the pandemic will fade into the background.

                          Comment

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