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"the most flawed person I have ever met in my life"

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  • #31
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    You explicitly cited two things including chanting "lock her up" as examples that are "'flaws' [which] outshine all but the most despicable historical figures." That is at best silly and at worst deranged. ...

    Rogue, there is no excuse for a man as intelligent as you are rendering such a sloppy and inaccurate summary of the context and meaning of what I said.

    In rallying a crowd into chanting "lock her up" directed at a woman where similar vitriol had resulted in a plot to kidnap and kill her, he is in fact rallying that crowd behind that plot and putting her in mortal danger. And the leader in the top office of a nation as powerful as the US that is willing to do that to someone he simply disagrees with politically outshines all but the most despicable historical figures. Such a leader willing to rally a crowd to such heights of recklessness and hatred IS despicable and IS evil, and siding with him in doing such a thing is also evil.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-20-2020, 09:20 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      1. Hunter never attended a single board meeting in spite of being paid something like three times more than other board members
      And Burisma more than got their money's worth when "the big guy" showed up and extorted the Ukrainian government into firing the prosecutor who was actively investigating his son's company.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        And Burisma more than got their money's worth when "the big guy" showed up and extorted the Ukrainian government into firing the prosecutor who was actively investigating his son's company.
        Unfortunately you have it completely backwards.

        Source: wikipedia shokin

        In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts".[24] Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma and, according to Zlochevsky's allies, using the threat of prosecution to try to solicit bribes from Mr. Zlochevsky and his team – to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.[38]

        While visiting Kiev in December 2015, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden warned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that, if he did not fire Shokin, the Obama administration was prepared to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees. Biden later said: "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' [...] He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." Whether or not Shokin's successor was "solid" was never confirmed.[40] Shokin was dismissed by Parliament in late March 2016.

        © Copyright Original Source



        Now later shokin tried to claim hte reverse, and it is HIS claims (the claims of the corrupt prosecutor) that you are believing, rather than the conclusion of America AND Europe wrt shokin.

        Source: wikipedia shokin

        Shokin was appointed Prosecutor General of Ukraine on 10 February 2015, replacing Vitaly Yarema.[6] He was a controversial appointee due to his perceived role in blocking prosecutions against those accused of shooting demonstrators in the 2014 Ukrainian revolution.[7] As Prosecutor General, he was accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and hindering the fight against corruption in Ukraine

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: wikipedia shokin

        Through 2015 and early 2016, domestic and international pressure (including from the IMF, the EU, and the EBRD) built for Shokin to be removed from office. The Obama administration withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees to pressure the Ukrainian government to remove Shokin from office.

        © Copyright Original Source



        It is understandable that Trump and his cult would try to rewrite the history wrt what actually took place, especially given the effort - active since the blackmailing of Ukraine resulting in Trumps impeachment - to find or create dirt on Biden.

        The bottom line being that Biden's part in pressuring to have Shokin removed was the exact opposite of your and other Trumpian's claims. He was acting to remove a presecutor that was protecting Burisma, and that would not have been in Hunter Biden or Joe Bidens best interests given the potential blowback through hunter to Joe, but it WAS in the US and the Western Democracy's best interests that he be removed.
        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-20-2020, 12:09 PM.
        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

          Unfortunately you have it completely backwards.

          Source: wikipedia shokin

          In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts".[24] Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma and, according to Zlochevsky's allies, using the threat of prosecution to try to solicit bribes from Mr. Zlochevsky and his team – to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.[38]

          While visiting Kiev in December 2015, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden warned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that, if he did not fire Shokin, the Obama administration was prepared to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees. Biden later said: "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' [...] He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." Whether or not Shokin's successor was "solid" was never confirmed.[40] Shokin was dismissed by Parliament in late March 2016.

          © Copyright Original Source



          Now later shokin tried to claim hte reverse, and it is HIS claims (the claims of the corrupt prosecutor) that you are believing, rather than the conclusion of America AND Europe wrt shokin.

          Source: wikipedia shokin

          Shokin was appointed Prosecutor General of Ukraine on 10 February 2015, replacing Vitaly Yarema.[6] He was a controversial appointee due to his perceived role in blocking prosecutions against those accused of shooting demonstrators in the 2014 Ukrainian revolution.[7] As Prosecutor General, he was accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and hindering the fight against corruption in Ukraine

          © Copyright Original Source



          Source: wikipedia shokin

          Through 2015 and early 2016, domestic and international pressure (including from the IMF, the EU, and the EBRD) built for Shokin to be removed from office. The Obama administration withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees to pressure the Ukrainian government to remove Shokin from office.

          © Copyright Original Source



          It is understandable that Trump and his cult would try to rewrite the history wrt what actually took place, especially given the effort - active since the blackmailing of Ukraine resulting in Trumps impeachment - to find or create dirt on Biden.
          Wikipedia.

          My recent post in another thread:


          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          There is no evidence that Shokin was corrupt, and we know he was actively investigating Burisma when Joe intervened (the investigation was halted by Shokin's replacement), we know that the Obama administration was well aware of the conflict of interest posed by Hunter's activities, and we know that Hunter had appealed to the Obama administration to get the prosecutor off the company's back. We also have Joe Biden on camera openly boasting about how he extorted the Ukrainian government into firing Shokin. I say again, we know this. None of it is guesswork, speculation, or idle theorizing.

          And now we can add this new evidence to the pile with clandestine "off the book" meetings between Vice President Joe Biden and foreign interests who were paying Hunter millions of dollars. In Burisma's case, it certainly paid off. I wonder who else got their money's worth? And what they got in return?
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Wikipedia.


            My recent post in another thread:

            As I've said before - wikipedia is a good summary source for publically available information. Your dismissal is just yet more evidence of your bias and ignoarnce.

            What ultimately you are proposing is that there was a world-wide conspiracy between the Obama administration and key organisations in Europe to cast Shokin as corrupt when in fact he was really a good guy being railroaded by the international community.

            Any other world-wide conspiracy theories you want to try to peddle today?

            The reality is the 'dirt' on Biden was sourced from the same sources that tried to do almost the exact same thing in France in 2017 through Trump's new fixer Giuliani.

            There is no credibility there - and you need a worldwide conspiracy against Shokin to boot. Typical Trump cult fantasy land fluff.
            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              As I've said before - wikipedia is a good summary source for publically available information.


              I provided multiple credible sources and video of Joe Biden condemning himself with his own words. This isn't conspiracy theorizing or guesswork, kiddo. The facts speaks for themselves.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                Perhaps God will discipline Joe for allowing late term or even after birth abortions?

                You simply cannot judge one person without the judging the other. That is the problem here.

                Which is why I do not bring my christian standards to bear on these politicians, not a one pass my born again test. And I can't think of anyone in politics who would. Politically, my first hurdle would be do you protect the unborn from harm. Joe fails the first test. So I am left with voting for no one.

                If you were to tell me you cannot "support" any of these people running then I would consider that a principled stand.
                Your last statement.

                It is more nuanced than all or nothing. that sort of thinking leads to Christians never participating at all in most elections.. its what is called a false dichotomy. The fact there is no perfect choice does not mean one choice is not significantly better than the other.

                in fact what I've been talking about is an action by trump that is so callous and negligent as to be disqualifying wrt running for any public office. No person of any sort of moral character, religious or otherwise, should be able to find it in themselves to excuse it.
                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post


                  I provided multiple credible sources and video of Joe Biden condemning himself with his own words. This isn't conspiracy theorizing or guesswork, kiddo. The facts speaks for themselves.
                  And I provided the basics of why your facts are not actually facts. Wrt shokin and Burisma, you are relying the output of people known for their expertise in creating disinformation and actively involved in an effort to produce exactly that wrt Biden. There is nothing about it that is credible.
                  He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                  "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    Your last statement.

                    It is more nuanced than all or nothing. that sort of thinking leads to Christians never participating at all in most elections.. its what is called a false dichotomy. The fact there is no perfect choice does not mean one choice is not significantly better than the other.

                    in fact what I've been talking about is an action by trump that is so callous and negligent as to be disqualifying wrt running for any public office. No person of any sort of moral character, religious or otherwise, should be able to find it in themselves to excuse it.
                    Sorry but I see it from a different angle. Once I realized the only time religion comes from politicians, it's to pander. I don't listen to any of them about their religion, and I remember quite well Jimmeh Carter, the big bad christian president. His christianity didn't work in a world full of evil now did it.

                    It's an entirely unchristian media system and unchristian politics. And people clamoring they are the better christian. Sorta like you seem to flirt with. The media, which is really who controls the politics, is being exposed for the charlatans they are, and I like that.

                    Your party supports, with hysterical passion, babies being dissected in the birth canal. I've found Democrats inexcusable for decades.

                    A good for instance of the state of your media, the chief legal analyst for CNN trashes a colleagues daughter, sexually and personally, becomes a baby daddy, and masturbates on zoom. People are talking he will remain on CNN. This is the state of your media. It's repulsive.

                    As for me, maranatha should explain my vision of the only thing that can fix anything, and will fix everything.
                    ​​​​

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                      Sorry but I see it from a different angle. Once I realized the only time religion comes from politicians, it's to pander. I don't listen to any of them about their religion, and I remember quite well Jimmeh Carter, the big bad christian president. His christianity didn't work in a world full of evil now did it.

                      It's an entirely unchristian media system and unchristian politics. And people clamoring they are the better christian. Sorta like you seem to flirt with. The media, which is really who controls the politics, is being exposed for the charlatans they are, and I like that.

                      Your party supports, with hysterical passion, babies being dissected in the birth canal. I've found Democrats inexcusable for decades.

                      A good for instance of the state of your media, the chief legal analyst for CNN trashes a colleagues daughter, sexually and personally, becomes a baby daddy, and masturbates on zoom. People are talking he will remain on CNN. This is the state of your media. It's repulsive.

                      As for me, maranatha should explain my vision of the only thing that can fix anything, and will fix everything.
                      ​​​​
                      I see you didn't listen. The Democratic party is not my party. I'm voting for Biden because the only conservative choice is a real and present danger to the entirety of the nation, not because he represents the majority of my political or social views. I'm a mixed bag Maranatha. I'm conservative fiscally and morally, but I support the environment and the hunt for true racial equialty, and most importantly, I do NOT support big buisiness at the expense of humanity, So while Trump does take a pro-life stance wrt abortion, his handling of the pandemic, immigration, and the recent racial tensions is most assuredly NOT pro-life by any measure. Consider that abortion is the law of the land, it is not Biden's doing nor is he capable single-handedly of stopping it. OTOH, the excess Coronavirus deaths is 100% Trump's legacy. All he had to do was not be an arrogant narcissistic fool and at least 100,000 fully formed human being would still be alive. Consider also that abortion is not something that can be ended by putting conservative justices on the supreme court that will also push back against nearly all other human rights or environmental issues in favor of Big Buisiness. Even if those conservative justices push it back to the states - you'll just have abortion states and non-abortion states and people will just drive to where they can get the abortion.

                      That is not to say I support abortion on demand, that is to say that a huge amount of humanitarian, environmental, and racial progress is being put in danger just to shift WHERE you can get an abortion. It's a very shortsighted way of thinking.
                      He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                      "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                      Comment

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