COVID: Trump Crushing It!

[firstfloor]

Herd immunity is produced by vaccination; assuming an effective vaccine. We need about 75% immunity in the community (the herd).

[NorrinRadd]

Now that's interesting, but it doesn't show what you were claiming. In fact, most Neandertal genes carried over in humans involve the immune system, and they carried over because they increased the survivability of humans. Some of those genes, according to this paper slated for publication in the preeminent journal, Nature, correlate with negative outcomes for Covid.

We carry genes that are billions of years old, from before the first one-celled organisms developed a nucleus. There's no reason to believe our species will eliminate Neandertal genes, ever.

I was just being flippant, because this thread deserved it. I had just stumbled across that odd little article, and it was fresh in my brain.

[shunyadragon]

Herd immunity is produced by vaccination; assuming an effective vaccine. We need about 75% immunity in the community (the herd).

Actually herd immunity is a combination of developing immunity from those infected in the population, vaccinations, and genetic immunity or resistance over time. There is a great deal of evidence for regional genetic immunity and resistance to COVID-19, particularly in the Southeast Asia region and South China where the animals are from that transmitted the virus to humans. This region would have a history of related coronavirus infections. Other countries in the Orient appear to have a lesser degree of genetic immunity and resistance. Some minorities and other regions of the world have low genetic resistance.

Yes, the development of vaccines is critical for the future development of a degree of herd immunity.

[shunyadragon]

This being the only active politics thread right now, excuse my intrusion.

Snopes quotes Trump.

One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that.

It seems quite obvious Trump didn't call the virus a hoax, since in the same breath he said US active cases were limited due to his early action against it. Why would he take early action against something he believed was a hoax?

He called the Democrat reaction to it - blaming him for it - to be the new "Russia hoax" for an impeachment.

Trump did say the COVID-19 was like the common flu, and that "only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from COVID-19, the rest had other serious illnesses." Both of these statements logically follow the Hoax claim if either were true, and they are mirrored in the beliefs of Trump supporters, and conspiracy theories
Last edited by shunyadragon; Today, 12:10 AM.

[Ronson]

Trump did say the COVID-19 was like the common flu, and that "only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from COVID-19, the rest had other serious illnesses." Both of these statements logically follow the Hoax claim if either were true, and they are mirrored in the beliefs of Trump supporters, and conspiracy theories
Last edited by shunyadragon; Today, 12:10 AM.

I refer you to the links provided further up the thread. Snopes, AP and FactCheck (none of which are Trump supporters) all agree that the "hoax" claim is bogus.

And as usual, Leftists are more concerned with words than actions. Trump closed off international travel from China and Europe (to Biden's criticism) to limit the spread of the disease. That's not something a president would do for the common flu.

[shunyadragon]

I refer you to the links provided further up the thread. Snopes, AP and FactCheck (none of which are Trump supporters) all agree that the "hoax" claim is bogus.

And as usual, Leftists are more concerned with words than actions. Trump closed off international travel from China and Europe (to Biden's criticism) to limit the spread of the disease. That's not something a president would do for the common flu.

I referred to actual quotes by Trump that advocate the pandemic as a hoax, and you failed to respond.

Actually no, He DID NOT close off travel from China. He limited travel from China, but in reality air travel was a sieve with too much travel world wide. Europe was only closed off to a degree later. Both never reduced the spread of COVID-19, after Europe restricted air travel. These measures were superficial and ineffective by the evidence. His neglect and cynicism early on showed a lack of leadership on dealing with the pandemic in the USA. He lied and deceived the public on the seriousness of the pandemic he knew early, and as far a sI know he did not inform Congress and others concerning the intelligence he had concerning the seriousness of the pandemic

[Stoic]

NYT: Experts Confident Pandemic To Be Over ‘Far Sooner’ Than Expected, Trump Efforts ‘Working With Remarkable Efficiency’

A new report from The New York Times indicates that experts have “genuine confidence” that the coronavirus pandemic will end “far sooner” than originally expected and that President Donald Trump’s Operation Warp Speed — the administration’s efforts to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics — has been “working with remarkable efficiency.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/nyt-e...ble-efficiency

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/h...-optimism.html

My original expectation was that it would be over this year, where "over" meant that the economy would be up and running with deaths per day in the single digits, and most people not having to worry about becoming infected. Of course, Trump's original expectation was that there would never be a significant number of infections, and when that didn't pan out, his expectation was that it would be gone by April.

Now, I think the experts are being optimistic if they are confident that it will be over by next year. It's not a slam dunk that any of the vaccine candidates will be safe and effective, and it's not clear that they'll be able to convince most people to get vaccinated. If those things don't happen, then we'll have to either finally get serious about beating it down like other countries have done, or we'll have to wait several years (with periodic shutdowns in various areas) until enough people have died that we have herd immunity.

I don't think I would call that "crushing it".

[Whateverman]

I referred to actual quotes by Trump that advocate the pandemic as a hoax, and you failed to respond.

Actually no, He DID NOT close off travel from China. He limited travel from China, but in reality air travel was a sieve with too much travel world wide. Europe was only closed off to a degree later. Both never reduced the spread of COVID-19, after Europe restricted air travel. These measures were superficial and ineffective by the evidence. His neglect and cynicism early on showed a lack of leadership on dealing with the pandemic in the USA. He lied and deceived the public on the seriousness of the pandemic he knew early, and as far a sI know he did not inform Congress and others concerning the intelligence he had concerning the seriousness of the pandemic

We should also remember that he allowed travel from Europe, which is how New York became the country's pandemic hot-spot.

Drumpf never crushed anything. He only succeeded at "not doing nothing".

[Juvenal]

The difference is that I never accused him of lying.

That's true.

I am saying the claim itself is a debunked lie ...

And that's not true.

The claim that Trump said the virus was a hoax was debunked.

The claim that Trump said the virus was a political hoax has not been addressed by fact checkers.

I think much of the reason why the first claim has spread, and here I mean specifically among Trump supporters like M, is because they reflexively dismiss any accusation against him. Against the claim that Trump called the virus a hoax, they land by reflex on the more powerful defense that the claim is correct, and the virus actually is a hoax. While the president has not said so, he has strongly implied it. More, in the face of evidence that it's being read that way by his supporters, he's failed to issue the now necessary clarification, a direct denial.

And that's a problem.

Because people like M are out there by the millions, refusing to engage in the most basic of interventions, putting on the mask and maintaining distances. They're pushing up the case counts and consequently the count of excess deaths.

I'm not really interested in the partisan advantages here. My opposition is to horror shows in general, and specifically to the current rolling horror show needlessly costing the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans. If Trump were to take the stage tomorrow, and say definitively to his followers that the virus is not a hoax, I'd let him give me the big fat kiss he was promising all the beautiful women in a rally last week.

Because saving lives is more important than saving anybody's reputation.

[Leonhard]

I do hope this ailment will be over next year. By that time, if we're lucky, we should have a couple of somewhat well vetted vaccines out.

[Ronson]

I referred to actual quotes by Trump that advocate the pandemic as a hoax, and you failed to respond.

I can't find the post(s) you are referring to. In this thread, you have one post from a Trump supporter calling covid a hoax, but that's not Trump.

Actually no, He DID NOT close off travel from China. He limited travel from China, but in reality air travel was a sieve with too much travel world wide. Europe was only closed off to a degree later. Both never reduced the spread of COVID-19, after Europe restricted air travel. These measures were superficial and ineffective by the evidence. His neglect and cynicism early on showed a lack of leadership on dealing with the pandemic in the USA. He lied and deceived the public on the seriousness of the pandemic he knew early, and as far a sI know he did not inform Congress and others concerning the intelligence he had concerning the seriousness of the pandemic

So what are you saying Trump should have done?

[Whateverman]

I do hope this ailment will be over next year. By that time, if we're lucky, we should have a couple of somewhat well vetted vaccines out.

I'd think that some time in 2021, we'll get it under control enough that we can return to something close to normality. I say this knowing that without a 75%+ effective vaccine, it'll be practically impossible.

[Leonhard]

I'd think that some time in 2021, we'll get it under control enough that we can return to something close to normality. I say this knowing that without a 75%+ effective vaccine, it'll be practically impossible.

In all likelihood coronavirus will probably be a permanent fixture, but it might be possible for us to out more than currently.

Mask wearing might become permanent though.

[Ronson]

In all likelihood coronavirus will probably be a permanent fixture, but it might be possible for us to out more than currently.

Mask wearing might become permanent though.

Some doctors are now protesting the effectiveness of masks, claiming it gives a false sense of security.

[Leonhard]

Some doctors are now protesting the effectiveness of masks, claiming it gives a false sense of security.

It does, I was skeptical of them as well for that specific reason. As were many danish doctors, but the statistics are quite clear that even though people take on greater risk behavior, it seems the net effect is roughly 30% reduction in the spread of disease.

If COVID-19 ends up becoming endemic, and we don't develop herd immunity, then it seems COVID-19 will be like Measles, both of them endemic in the population, and come back now and then when people relax what it takes to keep it down. Though maybe if the vaccines COVID-19 you only need to take every year or every six months are efficient, we can just combine them with the FLU vaccines, and that might be able to keep it down.