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COVID: Trump Crushing It!

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

    Yeah it d [blah blah blah]
    No quote for your claim. Nothing but bluster, name-calling and rudeness.

    Definitely a Drumpf supporter.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
      No quote for your claim. Nothing but bluster, name-calling and rudeness.

      Definitely a Drumpf supporter.
      Bwahahahahahaa!!! I love when you libtards eat your own. Now, leftist Snopes isn't even far enough left for you!!!

      I don't have to prove a negative. You have to prove he said it. Direct quote.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
        No quote for your claim. Nothing but bluster, name-calling and rudeness.

        Definitely a Drumpf supporter.
        Bwaha [...]
        Like I said

        Comment


        • #64
          This being the only active politics thread right now, excuse my intrusion.

          Snopes quotes Trump.

          One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that.


          It seems quite obvious Trump didn't call the virus a hoax, since in the same breath he said US active cases were limited due to his early action against it. Why would he take early action against something he believed was a hoax?

          He called the Democrat reaction to it - blaming him for it - to be the new "Russia hoax" for an impeachment.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
            It seems quite obvious Trump didn't call the virus a hoax
            It seems quite obvious that this one quote is being used to brush over the dozens of other quotes in which Drumpf called virus a hoax.

            Apologists for a serial liar are, themselves, liars.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
              It seems quite obvious that this one quote is being used to brush over the dozens of other quotes in which Drumpf called virus a hoax.

              Apologists for a serial liar are, themselves, liars.
              Prove it! Cite him directly calling the virus a hoax.
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                The difference is that I never accused him of lying. I said the claim that Trump called the virus a hoax was a lie
                So your justification is that its okay for you to say that he said a lie, but it wouldn't be okay for you to accuse him of lying? That's pretty sad distinction.

                being called out on repeating a known lie isn't against the forum rules. I wrote that rule, so I should know.
                I'm genuinely curious what your motivation was for making that a forum rule? A rule against calling someone out for lying isn't a rule I've ever seen on any other internet forum I've been part of.

                I've tended over my years here to just assume it must be in TWeb's rules because the people that run the site intended be dishonest in their posts and wanted to be able to mod anyone who rightly called them out for it, given that's how it seems to get used.
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                  Nothing in your response refutes what I said. Trump did NOT call the virus a hoax. I don't care what others interpreted him as saying. He didn't say it. Full stop.
                  His devoted followers believe it and continue to join him in 'superspreaders.'

                  Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/03/donald-trump-base-stays-loyal-president-fights-covid-19



                  'It’s a hoax. There's no pandemic': Trump's base stays loyal as president fights Covid


                  Sean Patterson is not worried that Donald Trump has been hospitalized with coronavirus because he believes what the president tells him.

                  “It’s a hoax. There’s no pandemic. As Trump said, how many millions die of flu?” said the 56-year-old truck driver outside the early voting station in St Joseph, Missouri – a stronghold for the president.

                  But then Patterson pauses and contemplates the possibility that Trump really does have Covid-19.

                  “If he’s sick, then they planted it when they tested him. It’s what they did to me when I went to hospital for my heart beating too fast. Two weeks later I got a cold,” he said. “It’s political. I don’t trust the US government at all. Who are they to mandate personal safety? I listen to Trump.”

                  At the end of a tumultuous week even by the standards of one of the most turbulent presidencies of modern times, the disturbing if not entirely unpredictable news that the president has contracted coronavirus prompted alarm, confusion and schadenfreude in the heart of Trumpland.

                  St Joseph, a former frontier city where the outlaw Jesse James met his bloody end, voted overwhelmingly for the president four years ago. The polls say Missouri will go his way again next month. But with Trump struggling in key swing states, the news he has fallen sick to Covid-19 jolted an election already battered days earlier by the most undignified presidential election debate in history.

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-17-2020, 09:44 PM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                    It seems quite obvious that this one quote is being used to brush over the dozens of other quotes in which Drumpf called virus a hoax.

                    Apologists for a serial liar are, themselves, liars.
                    Yeah, you'd need to cite an example, one of these "dozens" of quotes. Snopes seems to feel this is the only case - and Snopes is not an apologist for Trump.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Trump continues to be the host of 'auperspreader' events around the country, and it is not manure, ah . . . maybe manure too. .

                      Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/10/17/trump-holds-wisconsin-rally-after-his-covid-task-force-warns-of-preventable-deaths/#4128b1637e18



                      Trump Holds Wisconsin Rally After His Covid Task Force Warns Of ‘Preventable Deaths’

                      President Trump plans to throw what promises to be a crowded rally in Janesville, Wisconsin on Saturday even after a report from the White House coronavirus task force explicitly recommended against such events in the state amid a surge of coronavirus cases.
                      DES MOINES, IOWA - OCTOBER 14: President Donald Trump speaks to supporters during a rally at the Des ... [+]

                      GETTY IMAGESKEY FACTS


                      In a private report sent by the White House to governors, obtained by the Center for Public Integrity, the task force recommends “avoiding crowds in public” in Wisconsin, as well as mask-wearing and social distancing.

                      The report, which says Wisconsin is “in the red zone for cases,” warns that not following such measures “will lead to preventable deaths.”

                      Wisconsin has faced the 4th highest case increase of any state, with 4,172 new cases reported on Friday and 20 new deaths – 29% and 71% increases respectively over the last 14 days – according to the New York Times.

                      Trump has long flouted best practices when it comes to campaigning during the pandemic, but it’s been especially pronounced since he recovered from his own infection, with him talking about how he could now kiss attendees with no public health consequences.

                      While the Trump campaign has begun mandating masks at events – and has said it will maintain that measure in Janesville – Trump’s supporters are often seen at rallies packed tightly together with few masks between them.

                      © Copyright Original Source



                      Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-17-2020, 09:43 PM.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        The only thing you can catch at a Biden rally is loneliness.

                        biden.jpg
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that.


                          It seems quite obvious Trump didn't call the virus a hoax, since in the same breath he said US active cases were limited due to his early action against it. Why would he take early action against something he believed was a hoax?

                          He called the Democrat reaction to it - blaming him for it - to be the new "Russia hoax" for an impeachment.
                          Your logic falls down a bit because shortly after that in the same speech, and plenty of other times, Trump claimed that the number of people who die to the flu each year is higher than the Covid deaths would likely be. You can equally say "why would he take early action against something he believed wasn't as bad as the flu?"

                          It's clear that Trump claimed many times that Covid was no worse than the flu. In that sense he was certainly publicly claiming that the idea that Covid was a deadly disease shouldn't be taken all that seriously, and that Covid didn't need special-measures to defend against it. It's fair and reasonable to describe this posture of denying-the-seriousness-of-Covid as regarding the alleged deadliness of the disease as a 'hoax'. In that sense, whether or not Trump himself specifically used the word 'hoax' regarding the disease, it seems clear that in his public statements he portrayed himself as regarding the alleged deadliness of the disease as overhyped and a bit of a hoax. (Whether or not his public statements were different to what he privately believed, e.g. as he told Bob Woodward, is a different matter) But publicly, at least, for a long time, Trump stuck to his view that Covid was no worse than the flu and that the deadliness of it that was being claimed by scientists was misinformation and a hoax. So saying that Trump viewed Covid as a hoax seems a reasonably accurate statement, if one is not asserting that he specifically used that word, but just describing his general outlook on the disease and meaning he was a Covid-seriousness-denialist.

                          Back to the question of whether he literally used the word "hoax" himself about covid. The quote you have above has the sentence "And this is their new hoax". I've bolded "this" in your sentence because the crucial issue is, what is the 'this' that that word is referring to? If you look in your quoted section to try and work out what 'this' is referring to, there's nothing - there's no words in your quote that could be the reference for 'this'. So you haven't actually quoted enough, Trump must have been referring back to a 'this' earlier in his speech. Going back one paragraph earlier we get the line:

                          Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. You know that, right? Coronavirus. They’re politicizing it.
                          So what is the "this" is under discussion in this section of the speech? It's "the coronavirus", that's the "this" Trump is talking about here, the "it" that the Dems are politicizing. So a paragraph later when he says "And this is their new hoax", the "this" referent appears to be the words "the coronavirus".

                          Now I'll 100% grant you that Trump makes word salads out of the simplest sentences, and can mangle a sentence and paragraph 3 ways from sundown. So I totally grant the possibility that if Trump wasn't linguistically impaired, that what he might well have been trying to mean was that the "this" was the way in which "the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus". That's a possibility for what he meant. I don't rate it a very high possibility looking at the words alone, but taking into account Trump's buffoonery I'll grant that maybe that's what he was trying to get at and he had a bit of a swing and a miss.

                          Unfortunately he then went on later in that speech to do his "it's not as bad as the flu" schtick, and hence doing covid-denialism in practice even if he hadn't meant to call the virus itself a "hoax" the way it came out of his mouth earlier in the speech. Arguing over whether he literally said or meant to call the virus a "hoax" is a little bit pointless because his covid-denialism is well documented with regard to his repeated "it's not as bad as the flu" spiel, so he definitely presented to the public a view that the dangers of covid were a hoax. So anyone who says Trump said Covid was a hoax is 100% accurate if they are meaning he said things to cause people to view it as not a serious threat, and arguing over whether he specifically said "coronavirus... is a hoax" is a bit pointless because his words were ambiguous as to what the "this" was.
                          Last edited by Starlight; 10-17-2020, 09:56 PM.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Your logic falls down a bit because shortly after that in the same speech, and plenty of other times, Trump claimed that the number of people who die to the flu each year is higher than the Covid deaths would likely be. You can equally say "why would he take early action against something he believed wasn't as bad as the flu?"

                            It's clear that Trump claimed many times that Covid was no worse than the flu. In that sense he was certainly publicly claiming that the idea that Covid was a deadly disease shouldn't be taken all that seriously, and that Covid didn't need special-measures to defend against it. It's fair and reasonable to describe this posture of denying-the-seriousness-of-Covid as regarding the alleged deadliness of the disease as a 'hoax'. In that sense, whether or not Trump himself specifically used the word 'hoax' regarding the disease, it seems clear that in his public statements he portrayed himself as regarding the alleged deadliness of the disease as overhyped and a bit of a hoax. (Whether or not his public statements were different to what he privately believed, e.g. as he told Bob Woodward, is a different matter) But publicly, at least, for a long time, Trump stuck to his view that Covid was no worse than the flu and that the deadliness of it that was being claimed by scientists was misinformation and a hoax. So saying that Trump viewed Covid as a hoax seems a reasonably accurate statement, if one is not asserting that he specifically used that word, but just describing his general outlook on the disease and meaning he was a Covid-seriousness-denialist.

                            Back to the question of whether he literally used the word "hoax" himself about covid. The quote you have above has the sentence "And this is their new hoax". I've bolded "this" in your sentence because the crucial issue is, what is the 'this' that that word is referring to? If you look in your quoted section to try and work out what 'this' is referring to, there's nothing - there's no words in your quote that could be the reference for 'this'. So you haven't actually quoted enough, Trump must have been referring back to a 'this' earlier in his speech. Going back one paragraph earlier we get the line:

                            Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. You know that, right? Coronavirus. They’re politicizing it.
                            So what is the "this" is under discussion in this section of the speech? It's "the coronavirus", that's the "this" Trump is talking about here, the "it" that the Dems are politicizing. So a paragraph later when he says "And this is their new hoax", the "this" referent appears to be the words "the coronavirus".

                            Now I'll 100% grant you that Trump makes word salads out of the simplest sentences, and can mangle a sentence and paragraph 3 ways from sundown. So I totally grant the possibility that if Trump wasn't linguistically impaired, that what he might well have been trying to mean was that the "this" was the way in which "the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus". That's a possibility for what he meant. I don't rate it a very high possibility looking at the words alone, but taking into account Trump's buffoonery I'll grant that maybe that's what he was trying to get at and he had a bit of a swing and a miss.

                            Unfortunately he then went on later in that speech to do his "it's not as bad as the flu" schtick, and hence doing covid-denialism in practice even if he hadn't meant to call the virus itself a "hoax" the way it came out of his mouth earlier in the speech. Arguing over whether he literally said or meant to call the virus a "hoax" is a little bit pointless because his covid-denialism is well documented with regard to his repeated "it's not as bad as the flu" spiel, so he definitely presented to the public a view that the dangers of covid were a hoax. So anyone who says Trump said Covid was a hoax is 100% accurate if they are meaning he said things to cause people to view it as not a serious threat, and arguing over whether he specifically said "coronavirus... is a hoax" is a bit pointless because his words were ambiguous as to what the "this" was.
                            Fair enough. Trump may have meant the "seriousness" of the disease was the hoax, but we differ on the latitude afforded to Trump here. I agree with Snopes that the word "hoax" was not used to describe covid itself but the Democrat Party application of it. And the Associated Press and FactCheck agree with that too.

                            https://apnews.com/article/election-...e61b7c34549da2
                            https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/de...-hoax-comment/

                            In Trump's clumsy way, he was saying "This is their new ballgame" or "This is their new plan of attack". But because he was referencing the Ukraine impeachment, he said "This is their new hoax." A poor choice of words.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Trump did say the COVID-19 was like the common flu, and that "only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from COVID-19, the rest had other serious illnesses." Both of these statements logically follow the Hoax claim if either were true, and they are mirrored in the beliefs of Trump supporters, and conspiracy theories
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-17-2020, 11:10 PM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                Trump did say the COVID-19 was like the common flu, and that "only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from COVID-19, the rest had other serious illnesses." Both of these statements logically follow the Hoax claim if either were true, and they are mirrored in the beliefs of Trump supporters, and conspiracy theories
                                They hyper-parse Drumpf's statements when there's the slightest chance that - unlike 99% of the rest of the time - his claims are defensible.

                                At all other times, they either give the statements a pass, or claim something dishonest like "he was being funny".

                                Don't waste your time trying to be reasonable with them, because they certainly have no intention of returning the favor

                                Comment

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