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  • #16
    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

    That seems to me to be a problem of practicality, not one of principle. Something to work towards. The rest of the comments there read as nothing more than elitist poor shaming.
    "Elitist" voting is what we started with, where a voter had to be a property owner. But there has to be limits. A person must have ID to vote - if for nothing else to verify they are a citizen and they only vote once in an election.

    I disagree, I don't consider voting a luxury, I consider it a right if you're a citizen of a free country. In as much as prisoners are denied this right, then they're being made into second class citizens.
    They are also denied the "right" to their freedom. Why make an issue out of voting?

    Any attempt to destroy mail voting will hurt patients right to vote.
    We have "absentee balloting" in this country, and we've had it for a long time. This new "mail-in" voting system being set up is a strategy Democrats are promoting because it presumably helps their cause.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
      "Elitist" voting is what we started with, where a voter had to be a property owner. But there has to be limits. A person must have ID to vote - if for nothing else to verify they are a citizen and they only vote once in an election.
      Yes, I'm glad your country as whole moved away from that. I'd agree with voter ID, though it's quite a huge problem for the US to tackle. But in the long run I think it would be good for them to do so and create a nationalized database of all its citizens. It seems weird to me that American citizens have to prove that they're a citizen all over again in order even get a drivers license, much less be on the voter rolls.

      They are also denied the "right" to their freedom. Why make an issue out of voting?
      I don't see the point of tying voting to a punishment, nor do I consider prisoners illegitimate as voters.

      We have "absentee balloting" in this country, and we've had it for a long time. This new "mail-in" voting system being set up is a strategy Democrats are promoting because it presumably helps their cause.
      Why do you believe it helps their cause? Why not have as many people vote as possible?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

        Yes, I'm glad your country as whole moved away from that. I'd agree with voter ID, though it's quite a huge problem for the US to tackle. But in the long run I think it would be good for them to do so and create a nationalized database of all its citizens. It seems weird to me that American citizens have to prove that they're a citizen all over again in order even get a drivers license, much less be on the voter rolls.

        I don't see the point of tying voting to a punishment, nor do I consider prisoners illegitimate as voters.

        Why do you believe it helps their cause? Why not have as many people vote as possible?
        It helps Democrats because ...

        1) Most of the lockdown states are blue states, so mail-in voting is the better option for them than making an exception for people to physically visit voting booths.
        2) There is more chance for fraud since a mail-in ballot entry can't be verified to have come from a registered voter. They are being mailed to residences, and anyone there can fill one out and mail it back. The argument is that the "anyone factor" might allow illegal immigrants to vote and Democratic policy is tailored toward them. It might allow minors to vote, too.

        Absentee balloting is more secure.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Ronson View Post

          It helps Democrats because ...

          1) Most of the lockdown states are blue states, so mail-in voting is the better option for them than making an exception for people to physically visit voting booths.
          Why do you find this to be a problem? Isn't it good that they can vote from home? I'm not being facetious here, I just want to know if you genuinely find this aspect to be bad.

          2) There is more chance for fraud since a mail-in ballot entry can't be verified to have come from a registered voter. They are being mailed to residences, and anyone there can fill one out and mail it back. The argument is that the "anyone factor" might allow illegal immigrants to vote and Democratic policy is tailored toward them. It might allow minors to vote, too.

          Absentee balloting is more secure.
          We do voter slips like that in Denmark. You get the voter slip, and you take it to a voter registration facility during voting and cast your vote. If and only if you've lost the slip, or suspect someone has stolen it you can register your vote using your ID and that decision will be marked down and will overrule the voting slip should someone have already cast it. I've never heard of that happening, but I did once lose a voting slip, and was still able to vote using my ID.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

            Why do you find this to be a problem? Isn't it good that they can vote from home? I'm not being facetious here, I just want to know if you genuinely find this aspect to be bad.
            My objection is only about the process. That's why I support "absentee balloting."

            We do voter slips like that in Denmark. You get the voter slip, and you take it to a voter registration facility during voting and cast your vote. If and only if you've lost the slip, or suspect someone has stolen it you can register your vote using your ID and that decision will be marked down and will overrule the voting slip should someone have already cast it. I've never heard of that happening, but I did once lose a voting slip, and was still able to vote using my ID.
            The less chance there is for fraud, the more I support it. If someone can show any reasonable identification - even a library card with their name on it - it would be better than this mail-in option being promoted right now.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
              My objection is only about the process. That's why I support "absentee balloting."
              What's the difference between an absentee ballot and what I'm describing. Perhaps that's what I'm missing.

              The less chance there is for fraud, the more I support it. If someone can show any reasonable identification - even a library card with their name on it - it would be better than this mail-in option being promoted right now.
              We've had the system we have in Denmark for a long time. You get the voter slip by mail. You cast your vote and you have your ID in case where you've lost the voting slip, or you believe its been stolen. What's wrong with that system, and why would it not be applicable to the US? I imagine most people have at least a drivers license? They can then vote that way. Homeless people can show up to mayors office and cast their vote there. Prisoners votes can be collected in the prisons.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

                What's the difference between an absentee ballot and what I'm describing. Perhaps that's what I'm missing.
                The huge difference is the absentee ballot is requested. That way the person and his last-known residence coincide. For fraud to work in this case, the new resident would have to know the name of the previous resident and whether or not he/she was registered to vote. And this would likely be uncovered when the legitimate voter votes again at his new residence.

                The current mail-in option just sends ballots out to residences willy-nilly.

                We've had the system we have in Denmark for a long time. You get the voter slip by mail. You cast your vote and you have your ID in case where you've lost the voting slip, or you believe its been stolen. What's wrong with that system, and why would it not be applicable to the US? I imagine most people have at least a drivers license? They can then vote that way. Homeless people can show up to mayors office and cast their vote there. Prisoners votes can be collected in the prisons.
                I don't know enough about your system to comment on it. I also don't know if you have a problem with illegal immigration on the same scale as the U.S.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                  The huge difference is the absentee ballot is requested. That way the person and his last-known residence coincide. For fraud to work in this case, the new resident would have to know the name of the previous resident and whether or not he/she was registered to vote. And this would likely be uncovered when the legitimate voter votes again at his new residence.

                  The current mail-in option just sends ballots out to residences willy-nilly.
                  Don't you have to register your current residence when you move? That's how it works in Denmark. In fact if you live anywhere for longer than three months then that place is officially considered your residence.

                  I don't know enough about your system to comment on it. I also don't know if you have a problem with illegal immigration on the same scale as the U.S.
                  We had a greater scale of immigration per capita than the US, this also includes illegal immigration. This wasn't a problem.

                  The rules are simple in my country 1) You must be a citizen, 2) You must be 18 years old, 3) You must not legally be a minor (severely brain damaged individual etc.. someone who isn't capable of understanding what they're doing). You receive the voter slip at your place of residence. If you are homeless you must go to the town hall and request one, or request one through a social worker. After that it is simple, you show up to a designated voting area, you register your vote there and that's it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

                    Don't you have to register your current residence when you move? That's how it works in Denmark. In fact if you live anywhere for longer than three months then that place is officially considered your residence.
                    No. If a person wants to vote they'll need to re-register sometime before an election. My wife went 15 years without re-registering after a move.

                    We had a greater scale of immigration per capita than the US, this also includes illegal immigration. This wasn't a problem.

                    The rules are simple in my country 1) You must be a citizen, 2) You must be 18 years old, 3) You must not legally be a minor (severely brain damaged individual etc.. someone who isn't capable of understanding what they're doing).
                    But that rule wouldn't be fair to Democrats.

                    You receive the voter slip at your place of residence. If you are homeless you must go to the town hall and request one, or request one through a social worker. After that it is simple, you show up to a designated voting area, you register your vote there and that's it.

                    Comment

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