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Hypothetical Convicted Felon Rights questions.

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  • Hypothetical Convicted Felon Rights questions.

    Hypothetical:

    Trump commutes Bernie Madoff's sentence. He has now legally paid his debt to society, and is just another person with a felony conviction, and a lot of outstanding fines. He moves to Florida.

    1. Should Bernie be allowed to vote?

    2. Should Bernie be allowed to own a firearm?

    Under Florida law the answer to both is currently no.

    What is the reason for your answers?

  • #2
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
    Hypothetical:

    Trump commutes Bernie Madoff's sentence. He has now legally paid his debt to society, and is just another person with a felony conviction, and a lot of outstanding fines. He moves to Florida.

    1. Should Bernie be allowed to vote?

    2. Should Bernie be allowed to own a firearm?

    Under Florida law the answer to both is currently no.

    What is the reason for your answers?
    I would say he gets to vote right away, I would have a five year waiting period before letting him buy a firearm. If it was a non-violent felony. Reasons? I don't think any one should lose a Constitutional right for a life time.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #3
      Bump

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
        Hypothetical:

        Trump commutes Bernie Madoff's sentence. He has now legally paid his debt to society, and is just another person with a felony conviction, and a lot of outstanding fines. He moves to Florida.

        1. Should Bernie be allowed to vote?
        Sure. Why not.

        2. Should Bernie be allowed to own a firearm?
        A non violent ex felon? Then yes.

        Under Florida law the answer to both is currently no.

        What is the reason for your answers?
        In Bernie's case, his sentence shouldn't be "commuted" unless he has some sort of plan to pay back some of that stolen money. I understand he shifted a lot of it around so it would be protected.
        Last edited by Ronson; 10-13-2020, 07:57 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
          Hypothetical:

          Trump commutes Bernie Madoff's sentence. He has now legally paid his debt to society, and is just another person with a felony conviction, and a lot of outstanding fines. He moves to Florida.

          1. Should Bernie be allowed to vote?

          2. Should Bernie be allowed to own a firearm?

          Under Florida law the answer to both is currently no.

          What is the reason for your answers?
          Yes to both, after a decent amount of time (5-10 years IMO) without any recidivism - I don't believe in completely stripping a non-violent felon of those rights unless there is recidivism.

          I'd say if he (or any other felon outside this hypothetical) commits another felony in the future, however, that's a wrap - permanent loss of those rights.

          For a violent felon who committed a crime with weapons, on the other hand, I'd say yes to the first (with the same stipulations), but no to the second.

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          • #6
            I'd do away with the whole concept of a 'felon' in law.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              I'd do away with the whole concept of a 'felon' in law.
              What does that get us?
              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                What does that get us?
                The problem goes away. If there are no felons, then there's no complexity about whether they've earned back full citizen status.

                The real question is, what does the felon concept in law give you that makes it worth keeping?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

                  The problem goes away. If there are no felons, then there's no complexity about whether they've earned back full citizen status.

                  The real question is, what does the felon concept in law give you that makes it worth keeping?
                  It's simply a measurement of degree, a felony being more serious than a misdemeanor. And with serious crimes come more serious repercussions.

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                  • #10
                    What he says

                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                    It's simply a measurement of degree, a felony being more serious than a misdemeanor. And with serious crimes come more serious repercussions.
                    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                      It's simply a measurement of degree, a felony being more serious than a misdemeanor. And with serious crimes come more serious repercussions.
                      That seems to me to already be the case with punishments, so I don't think this is a good argument either.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

                        That seems to me to already be the case with punishments, so I don't think this is a good argument either.
                        So you just want to get rid of the label "felon" and replace it with?
                        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                          So you just want to get rid of the label "felon" and replace it with?
                          Nothing. I believe everyone, including homeless, inmates and hospital patients have the right to vote.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

                            Nothing. I believe everyone, including homeless, inmates and hospital patients have the right to vote.
                            I don't agree. How do you validate votes from the homeless? They could vote from one block to the next since they don't have identification. And most are either deranged or strung out, so you're not going to get a coherent vote from them anyway.

                            Anyone incarcerated should forfeit their right to vote while they are incarcerated. The same goes for pedicures, HDTV in their cells, and caviar.

                            What do you mean by "hospital patients"? They can vote.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                              I don't agree. How do you validate votes from the homeless? They could vote from one block to the next since they don't have identification. And most are either deranged or strung out, so you're not going to get a coherent vote from them anyway.
                              That seems to me to be a problem of practicality, not one of principle. Something to work towards. The rest of the comments there read as nothing more than elitist poor shaming.

                              Anyone incarcerated should forfeit their right to vote while they are incarcerated. The same goes for pedicures, HDTV in their cells, and caviar.
                              I disagree, I don't consider voting a luxury, I consider it a right if you're a citizen of a free country. In as much as prisoners are denied this right, then they're being made into second class citizens.

                              What do you mean by "hospital patients"? They can vote.
                              Any attempt to destroy mail voting will hurt patients right to vote.

                              Comment

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