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A BIG gift to Donald Trump from North Korea for his incompetent peace efforts.

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  • A BIG gift to Donald Trump from North Korea for his incompetent peace efforts.

    Donald Trump's Korean buddy for the fruits of his incompetent peace efforts.

    Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/10/asia/north-korea-military-parade-new-missiles-intl-hnk/index.html



    North Korea unveils massive new ballistic missile in military parade

    By Brad Lendon, CNN

    Updated 10:28 AM ET, Sat October 10, 2020

    Hong Kong (CNN)North Korea unveiled what analysts believe to be one of the world's largest ballistic missiles at a military parade celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Workers' Party broadcast on state-run television on Saturday.

    The massive weapon was carried by an 11-axle truck at the climax of the almost two-hour ceremony and military parade in the capital of Pyongyang.
    Analysts said the new missile is not known to have been tested, but a bigger weapon would allow North Korea to put multiple warheads on it, increasing the threat it would pose to any targeted foe.
    "Largest *road-mobile* liquid-fueled missile anywhere, to be clear," tweeted Ankit Panda, senior fellow in the Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace."Liquid fuel, Huuuuge, capable of carrying MIRV nuclear warheads," tweeted Melissa Hanham, deputy director of Open Nuclear Network at Stanford University.
    "What North Korea has shown us, what appears to be a new liquid-fueled ICBM that seems to be a derivative of what was tested back in late 2017, known as the Hwasong-15, is much bigger and clearly more powerful than anything in the DPRK's arsenal," said Harry Kazianis, senior director of Korean studies at the Washington DC-based Center for the National Interest.

    © Copyright Original Source


    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  • #2
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Donald Trump's Korean buddy for the fruits of his incompetent peace efforts.

    Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/10/asia/north-korea-military-parade-new-missiles-intl-hnk/index.html



    North Korea unveils massive new ballistic missile in military parade

    By Brad Lendon, CNN

    Updated 10:28 AM ET, Sat October 10, 2020

    Hong Kong (CNN)North Korea unveiled what analysts believe to be one of the world's largest ballistic missiles at a military parade celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Workers' Party broadcast on state-run television on Saturday.

    The massive weapon was carried by an 11-axle truck at the climax of the almost two-hour ceremony and military parade in the capital of Pyongyang.
    Analysts said the new missile is not known to have been tested, but a bigger weapon would allow North Korea to put multiple warheads on it, increasing the threat it would pose to any targeted foe.
    "Largest *road-mobile* liquid-fueled missile anywhere, to be clear," tweeted Ankit Panda, senior fellow in the Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace."Liquid fuel, Huuuuge, capable of carrying MIRV nuclear warheads," tweeted Melissa Hanham, deputy director of Open Nuclear Network at Stanford University.
    "What North Korea has shown us, what appears to be a new liquid-fueled ICBM that seems to be a derivative of what was tested back in late 2017, known as the Hwasong-15, is much bigger and clearly more powerful than anything in the DPRK's arsenal," said Harry Kazianis, senior director of Korean studies at the Washington DC-based Center for the National Interest.

    © Copyright Original Source

    About time for Donald to write another love-letter to his "North Korean Buddy".
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • #3
      IOW, nothing in North Korea has changed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
        IOW, nothing in North Korea has changed.
        Very true! Trump's cheek warming diplomatic exercise gave one of the most horrendous cruel dictators international credibility and boosted his image.

        Maybe another love letter from Trump will turn things around.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

          Very true! Trump's cheek warming diplomatic exercise gave one of the most horrendous cruel dictators international credibility and boosted his image.

          Maybe another love letter from Trump will turn things around.
          IOW, Trump made the effort and failed. And nothing has changed. VOTE BIDEN!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post

            IOW, Trump made the effort and failed. And nothing has changed. VOTE BIDEN!!!
            The nature of the effort is the problem. He virtually glorified and complemented him, and increased his international image, and compromised our relationship with South Korea by canceling joint maneuvers.

            What did Trump expect from the most horrendous cruel dictator in the world, ah . . . maybe Putin is worse poisoning everyone who disagrees with him. Of course Trump will not criticize Putin either.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

              The nature of the effort is the problem. He virtually glorified and complemented him, and increased his international image,
              Oh, sure. Kim is idolized now.

              and compromised our relationship with South Korea by canceling joint maneuvers.
              US relationship with SK hasn't changed.

              What did Trump expect from the most horrendous cruel dictator in the world, ah . . . maybe Putin is worse poisoning everyone who disagrees with him. Of course Trump will not criticize Putin either.
              Oh, so Trump should condemn everyone the Left says he should. And what will that buy? What good will that do? Obama was quick to publicly condemn tyrants and such condemnations shut down dialogue. Trump employs that same strategy with Iran and there is no dialogue there either.

              The Left is very hung up on words and image. Maybe that's why Hollywood is solidly Left. The Left would more quickly support a matinee idol for POTUS than a statesman.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                IOW, Trump made the effort and failed. And nothing has changed. :[/B]
                In short, Trump's self-aggrandizing con-man tactics in international diplomacy failed as usual.




                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  Donald Trump's Korean buddy for the fruits of his incompetent peace efforts.

                  Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/10/asia/north-korea-military-parade-new-missiles-intl-hnk/index.html



                  North Korea unveils massive new ballistic missile in military parade

                  By Brad Lendon, CNN

                  Updated 10:28 AM ET, Sat October 10, 2020

                  Hong Kong (CNN)North Korea unveiled what analysts believe to be one of the world's largest ballistic missiles at a military parade celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Workers' Party broadcast on state-run television on Saturday.

                  The massive weapon was carried by an 11-axle truck at the climax of the almost two-hour ceremony and military parade in the capital of Pyongyang.
                  Analysts said the new missile is not known to have been tested, but a bigger weapon would allow North Korea to put multiple warheads on it, increasing the threat it would pose to any targeted foe.
                  "Largest *road-mobile* liquid-fueled missile anywhere, to be clear," tweeted Ankit Panda, senior fellow in the Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace."Liquid fuel, Huuuuge, capable of carrying MIRV nuclear warheads," tweeted Melissa Hanham, deputy director of Open Nuclear Network at Stanford University.
                  "What North Korea has shown us, what appears to be a new liquid-fueled ICBM that seems to be a derivative of what was tested back in late 2017, known as the Hwasong-15, is much bigger and clearly more powerful than anything in the DPRK's arsenal," said Harry Kazianis, senior director of Korean studies at the Washington DC-based Center for the National Interest.

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  So, is it your position that presidents should try diplomacy only when guaranteed success?

                  Not talking to the regime hasn't seemed to do any better.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                    So, is it your position that presidents should try diplomacy only when guaranteed success?

                    Not talking to the regime hasn't seemed to do any better.
                    t
                    NO, but Trump's methods and efforts guaranteed failure, appealing to a horrendous cruel dictator with flattery.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      t
                      NO, but Trump's methods and efforts guaranteed failure, appealing to a horrendous cruel dictator with flattery.
                      Given it's track record, it doesn't appear the other tactic is doing any better.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                        Given it's track record, it doesn't appear the other tactic is doing any better.
                        Trump's tactics gave the dictator credibility, and international recognition, and he played Trump like a chump.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                          Trump's tactics gave the dictator credibility, and international recognition, and he played Trump like a chump.
                          What exactly changed? Did people not recognize that the Kim family has been in charge of NK for 70 years? Unfortunately their "legitimacy" as the rulers of the country becomes solidified due to the passage of time, whether or not their claim held weight at the time it started.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                            What exactly changed? Did people not recognize that the Kim family has been in charge of NK for 70 years? Unfortunately their "legitimacy" as the rulers of the country becomes solidified due to the passage of time, whether or not their claim held weight at the time it started.
                            Not in terms of international prestige when Trump decided to meet with the dictator and negotiate with flattery.

                            Source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/15/give-north-korea-all-the-prestige-it-wants/



                            Give North Korea All the Prestige It Wants

                            Donald Trump can afford the humiliation of negotiating with Kim Jong Un.

                            n Dorothy L. Sayers’s short story “Talboys,” the noble sleuth Lord Peter Wimsey at one point gives his young son Bredon an important lesson about adult behavior. “I’ll tell you a secret, Bredon,” he says. “Grown-up people don’t always know everything, though they try to pretend they do. That is called ‘prestige,’ and is responsible for most of the wars that devastate the continent of Europe.”

                            I thought of that passage when I heard about U.S. President Donald Trump’s decision to accept North Korean leader Kim Jong Un’s invitation to a summit meeting. Like the “grown-up people” in Sayers’s story, Trump and Kim are both leaders who try to pretend they know everything. Moreover, the petty war of insults between “Little Rocket Man” and the “dotard” might have led to a war that devastated not the continent of Europe but the Korean Peninsula. In addition to the tangible conflicts of interest dividing the two states, issues of status, prestige, and ego are clearly involved as well.

                            For the United States, the central issue is North Korea’s nuclear weapons capability and its missile development program, which if continued will eventually enable it to hit the continental United States (though why it would choose to do so remains a mystery, given the consequences of U.S. retaliation). And for all his earlier bluster and saber-rattling, Trump seems to have realized — for now — that the existing military options are unattractive and that diplomacy is the only realistic path.

                            For North Korea, however, a key element in the dispute is its desire for recognition and prestige. In addition to wanting a reliable deterrent against a U.S. attack, North Korea would like the mighty United States to treat it not as a pariah but as something of an equal. Having diplomatic relations with Canada or Laos is one thing for Pyongyang; getting some respect from Washington is something else entirely.

                            This is why some of Trump’s critics are already accusing him of once again practicing the “art of the giveaway.” By accepting Kim’s invitation without any prior discussion and without any clear commitments on North Korea’s part, Trump has already given Kim what North Korea’s leaders have long wanted: the chance to meet and bargain face-to-face with the president of the world’s most powerful country. Suddenly, “Little Rocket Man” is enjoying the prospect of a summit meeting with Trump that will command the attention of the entire world, ahead of dozens of world leaders whom Trump has yet to meet with, visit, or pay the slightest attention to. And what did Trump get for this remarkable concession, a gift that none of his predecessors ever made? Nada. At the end of Round 1, the score is: Kim 1, Trump 0.

                            Why does Kim care whether he gets respect from Washington or not? After all, the United States hasn’t recognized North Korea officially for the entire 70 years of its existence. Actually, there’s your answer: As soon as the two leaders sit down to talk, Kim can plausibly claim to have pulled off something that neither his father nor his grandfather ever managed. Even if the talks themselves lead nowhere, Kim will have gotten an American president to treat him as an equal. To be sure, the United States has engaged with North Korea on numerous occasions in the past — including at the world’s longest-running (and slowest moving) peace talks at Panmunjom — but no U.S. president has ever met with his North Korean counterpart, precisely because no U.S. president wanted to grant status and prestige to any of the Kims without getting significant, tangible concessions in return.

                            In common parlance, “prestige” is recognition by others that someone or something is exceptional in some way, that it has positive qualities that distinguish it from the norm. Thus, Rolls-Royce and Mercedes-Benz are more “prestigious” car brands than Chevy or Hyundai, and victory at Wimbledon confers more prestige than winning a regular ATP tour event.

                            Like legitimacy or status, prestige is not a quality that an actor can confer on itself; it is something one earns or obtains from others. No matter how rich you are, you can’t give yourself prestige or status unless you can convince others that you deserve it. Someone of more modest means might enjoy greater prestige, for example, if others saw them as more virtuous, likeable, smart, well-behaved, or deserving. Case in point: Some have argued that Donald Trump’s compulsive tendency to inflate his own achievements derives from his repeated efforts to impress New York City’s social and business elite, which saw him as a boorish parvenu from Queens who had inherited a lot of money but not a lot of class. But I digress…

                            In international politics, a nation’s “prestige” is obviously tied to its past achievements, but it can also produce power in the present, which is why states are eager to acquire it. Signs of respect and acceptance from the rest of the international community make a country’s leaders look good and are likely to bolster their domestic support. Furthermore, states that enjoy a high level of prestige (for whatever reason) can expect greater deference from others, simply because they are believed to be skillful, competent, and capable. During the Cold War, for example, the Warsaw Pact poured immense effort into winning Olympic medals (often by cheating) because it believed such triumphs would showcase the superiority of communism and bring other states to follow Moscow’s lead on other matters. America’s moon landing was a similar achievement that underscored its technological sophistication, daring, and ability to set a goal and pull it off.

                            © Copyright Original Source





                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                              Not in terms of international prestige when Trump decided to meet with the dictator and negotiate with flattery.

                              Source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/15/give-north-korea-all-the-prestige-it-wants/



                              Give North Korea All the Prestige It Wants

                              Donald Trump can afford the humiliation of negotiating with Kim Jong Un.

                              n Dorothy L. Sayers’s short story “Talboys,” the noble sleuth Lord Peter Wimsey at one point gives his young son Bredon an important lesson about adult behavior. “I’ll tell you a secret, Bredon,” he says. “Grown-up people don’t always know everything, though they try to pretend they do. That is called ‘prestige,’ and is responsible for most of the wars that devastate the continent of Europe.”

                              I thought of that passage when I heard about U.S. President Donald Trump’s decision to accept North Korean leader Kim Jong Un’s invitation to a summit meeting. Like the “grown-up people” in Sayers’s story, Trump and Kim are both leaders who try to pretend they know everything. Moreover, the petty war of insults between “Little Rocket Man” and the “dotard” might have led to a war that devastated not the continent of Europe but the Korean Peninsula. In addition to the tangible conflicts of interest dividing the two states, issues of status, prestige, and ego are clearly involved as well.

                              For the United States, the central issue is North Korea’s nuclear weapons capability and its missile development program, which if continued will eventually enable it to hit the continental United States (though why it would choose to do so remains a mystery, given the consequences of U.S. retaliation). And for all his earlier bluster and saber-rattling, Trump seems to have realized — for now — that the existing military options are unattractive and that diplomacy is the only realistic path.

                              For North Korea, however, a key element in the dispute is its desire for recognition and prestige. In addition to wanting a reliable deterrent against a U.S. attack, North Korea would like the mighty United States to treat it not as a pariah but as something of an equal. Having diplomatic relations with Canada or Laos is one thing for Pyongyang; getting some respect from Washington is something else entirely.

                              This is why some of Trump’s critics are already accusing him of once again practicing the “art of the giveaway.” By accepting Kim’s invitation without any prior discussion and without any clear commitments on North Korea’s part, Trump has already given Kim what North Korea’s leaders have long wanted: the chance to meet and bargain face-to-face with the president of the world’s most powerful country. Suddenly, “Little Rocket Man” is enjoying the prospect of a summit meeting with Trump that will command the attention of the entire world, ahead of dozens of world leaders whom Trump has yet to meet with, visit, or pay the slightest attention to. And what did Trump get for this remarkable concession, a gift that none of his predecessors ever made? Nada. At the end of Round 1, the score is: Kim 1, Trump 0.

                              Why does Kim care whether he gets respect from Washington or not? After all, the United States hasn’t recognized North Korea officially for the entire 70 years of its existence. Actually, there’s your answer: As soon as the two leaders sit down to talk, Kim can plausibly claim to have pulled off something that neither his father nor his grandfather ever managed. Even if the talks themselves lead nowhere, Kim will have gotten an American president to treat him as an equal. To be sure, the United States has engaged with North Korea on numerous occasions in the past — including at the world’s longest-running (and slowest moving) peace talks at Panmunjom — but no U.S. president has ever met with his North Korean counterpart, precisely because no U.S. president wanted to grant status and prestige to any of the Kims without getting significant, tangible concessions in return.

                              In common parlance, “prestige” is recognition by others that someone or something is exceptional in some way, that it has positive qualities that distinguish it from the norm. Thus, Rolls-Royce and Mercedes-Benz are more “prestigious” car brands than Chevy or Hyundai, and victory at Wimbledon confers more prestige than winning a regular ATP tour event.

                              Like legitimacy or status, prestige is not a quality that an actor can confer on itself; it is something one earns or obtains from others. No matter how rich you are, you can’t give yourself prestige or status unless you can convince others that you deserve it. Someone of more modest means might enjoy greater prestige, for example, if others saw them as more virtuous, likeable, smart, well-behaved, or deserving. Case in point: Some have argued that Donald Trump’s compulsive tendency to inflate his own achievements derives from his repeated efforts to impress New York City’s social and business elite, which saw him as a boorish parvenu from Queens who had inherited a lot of money but not a lot of class. But I digress…

                              In international politics, a nation’s “prestige” is obviously tied to its past achievements, but it can also produce power in the present, which is why states are eager to acquire it. Signs of respect and acceptance from the rest of the international community make a country’s leaders look good and are likely to bolster their domestic support. Furthermore, states that enjoy a high level of prestige (for whatever reason) can expect greater deference from others, simply because they are believed to be skillful, competent, and capable. During the Cold War, for example, the Warsaw Pact poured immense effort into winning Olympic medals (often by cheating) because it believed such triumphs would showcase the superiority of communism and bring other states to follow Moscow’s lead on other matters. America’s moon landing was a similar achievement that underscored its technological sophistication, daring, and ability to set a goal and pull it off.

                              © Copyright Original Source




                              You didn't answer though. What exactly changed WRT to NK. Did the other countries start inviting them to the "cool countries table" to eat in the cafeteria?

                              Comment

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