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First Presidential Debate

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  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post


    Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/donald-trump-proud-boys-debate-1068580/



    What Did Trump Mean When He Told Proud Boys to ‘Stand Back and Stand By’?

    During the debate, President Trump essentially gave a white supremacist group a shoutout

    Asked to condemn white supremacists on Tuesday night, President Trump instead named a militant white supremacist group and issued a call to arms.

    Moderator Chris Wallace asked Donald Trump if he was willing to “condemn white supremacists and militia groups.” He referenced cities such as Kenosha and Portland, hotbeds of civil unrest where much of the violence been initiated by far-right extremists and militia members.

    At first, Trump appeared to be receptive to condemning far-right extremists, but when pressed by Sen. Joe Biden and Wallace, he didn’t exactly do that:

    Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities, as we saw in Kenosha and in Portland?

    Sure I’m prepared to do that. (Biden interjects: Do it.) But I would say, I would say, almost everything I see is from the left wing, not the right wing.

    © Copyright Original Source



    And at the bolded part he did so what is the controversy? And why wouldn't Wallace ask Biden to do the same with all the violence done by antifa and BLM? Why don't the press ever ask Democrats to condemn the radicals on their side? They never ask them to denounce the endorsements they get from CPUSA which is wedded to a philosophy that has killed scores of millions of people when they implement it? They (unless it's someone from Fox or the Washington Times) ask them to condemn the mob looting and burning our cities and killing those who approach their "autonomous zones"? Yet if a nutcase endorses a Republican the MSM will ask them to denounce it at every stop for weeks on end.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seanD View Post

      I disagree. That Trump was bombastic, rude, unconventional is nothing new; everyone knew this about him, and this is why the silent majority is openly afraid to say they support him. But Trump looked strong and decisive in a situation where everyone could see the moderator was partial towards a much weaker opponent who couldn't do anything do defend himself without Wallace's help. Maybe that's just my own bias way of seeing it, but that's how I saw it, and I suspect that's how the silent majority afraid to say they support him also saw it.
      I saw it the same way. There were several moments throughout where Biden would have been screwed if Wallace hadn't come to his rescue. The other interesting thing is how easily Trump was able to take complete control of the debate, in some instances redirecting Biden mid-answer onto a completely different topic, in other instances completely shutting Biden down. One moment that's been making its rounds on social media was during a discussion (I use that word loosely) about manufacturing. Like most of the debate, there was a lot of crosstalk, but it went something like:

      Biden: "Manufacturing has been devastated under this administration. That's number one. Number two... number three, we--"
      Trump: "Excuse me, you were on number two."

      Biden's face went completely blank for several seconds while Trump continued talking, and then Biden sheepishly grinned and weakly said, "This guy..."
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Interesting take...

        Trump was aiming at other people - people not so repressed and fussy that a little loud talking makes them cry. He was aiming at non-traditional voters, particularly ones who he thought would respond well to a show of strength.

        [...]

        Let’s imagine if Trump had decided to play the conformity game. Let’s imagine he patiently waited his turn to answer Oldfinger’s well-rehearsed lies. Let’s contemplate what would have happened if he obediently answered the loaded questions, and only the loaded questions, that Chris Wallace hit him with. What then?

        He would have looked weak. Imagine waking up today to the headline, “Pathetic Trump Dominated by a Powerful, Potent Joe ‘Conan’ Biden!” If Trump was the well-behaved lad some on our side preferred, he'd be squeezing into the gimp box with president Mitt right about now. If you have to err, err on the side of not being a sissy.

        Moreover, he had to interrupt and ignore Wallace to get out the truths the establishment wants suppressed. Those semi-engaged potential voters, and the folks who only watch Channel 7 Action News, were probably stunned to hear that Biden can’t name a single cop org that is supporting him, that Antifa is an “idea” (of course Wallace blew the obvious follow-up – “So, is it a good or a bad idea?”), and that after Hoover Biden got booted from the Navy he was blasting rails off the taut bellies of hookers while pocketing multi-million dollar checks from Putin’s pals in Moscow. Trump exposed these people to the undernews the mainstream media had decided to hide, and despite his best efforts, Chris Wallace could not stop him. Bottom Line: Trump had to be so Trumpy.

        Townhall.com
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

          Is a credible news source supposed to be a "friend" of a presidential candidate?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

            Please repeat your unambiguous answer as to whether it is appropriate for a credible news organization to take the side of a particular presidential candidate.
            They do it ALL THE TIME. Where have you been?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              And at the bolded part he did so what is the controversy?
              IMO, they're making a stink about the "stand by" part. That might sound like Trump told them to be at attention, and ready.

              Wallace wanted a condemnation and disavowment (which of course assumes Proud Boys is racist at Wallace's say so). It's obvious Trump doesn't think they're racist (I don't either) and a condemnation would be playing into the Lefty ballgame and Trump alienating a voting base.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                And at the bolded part he did so what is the controversy? And why wouldn't Wallace ask Biden to do the same with all the violence done by antifa and BLM? Why don't the press ever ask Democrats to condemn the radicals on their side? They never ask them to denounce the endorsements they get from CPUSA which is wedded to a philosophy that has killed scores of millions of people when they implement it? They (unless it's someone from Fox or the Washington Times) ask them to condemn the mob looting and burning our cities and killing those who approach their "autonomous zones"? Yet if a nutcase endorses a Republican the MSM will ask them to denounce it at every stop for weeks on end.
                The bolded part is followed by the fact he sill not, and the statement that the right is not a problem. Remember 'Stand Down and Stand By,' .on the Proud Boys T-shirts.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  That could have described either candidate. Trump may have interrupted more often but he didn't stoop to childish name calling.
                  No - it does not describe 'either candidate'. It describes Donald Trump and Donald Trump alone. I guarantee you that had Trump not interrupted every other word Biden spoke from the very first 2 minute 'uninterrupted' response, the debate would have shown him a respectful and thoughtful debater. It is the height of hypocrisy (especially in THIS forum) to criticize a man for not responding as the 'perfect gentleman' given Trump's all out assault on the debate rules and the moderator himself. Trump would not allow Biden to speak. He simply talked non-stop except when Wallace demanded he be silent. And had Biden not interrupted him or spoken over him, 2 minutes per 15 minutes (if that much) would have been all he had for the entire debate. But you don't really care about that - do you?

                  Trump's attacks on the electoral process, his encouragement of white supremacists, his encouragement of voter intimidation - it is beyond comprehension how any man or woman that actually cares about this country could possibly be defending these things. Yet here you and MM are, doing just that. there are no excuses, there are no 'explanations'. The lines in this election are clearly drawn. You can be for a man that represents a bit of decency and that actually cares about the future of our democracy and our principles, or you can elect a con man, a schyster and a crook, a man who cares nothing about anything but himself and those things that will keep him in power. And who is willing to do whatever it takes to keep himself in power, up to and including destroying our democracy.
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-01-2020, 10:12 AM.
                  He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                  "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    No - it does not describe 'either candidate'. It describes Donald Trump and Donald Trump alone. I guarantee you that had Trump not interrupted every other word Biden spoke from the very first 2 minute 'uninterrupted' response, the debate would have shown him a respectful and thoughtful debater. It is the height of hypocrisy (especially in THIS forum) to criticize a man for not responding as the 'perfect gentleman' given Trump's all out assault on the debate rules and the moderator himself. Trump would not allow Biden to speak. He simply talked non-stop except when Wallace demanded he be silent. And had Biden not interrupted him or spoken over him, 2 minutes per 15 minutes (if that much) would have been all he had for the entire debate. But you don't really care about that - do you?

                    Trump's attacks on the electoral process, his encouragement of white supremacists, his encouragement of voter intimidation - it is beyond comprehension how any man or woman that actually cares about this country could possibly be defending these things. Yet here you and MM are, doing just that. there are no excuses, there are no 'explanations'. The lines in this election are clearly drawn. You can be for a man that represents a bit of decency and that actually cares about the future of our democracy and our principles, or you can elect a con man, a schyster and a crook, a man who cares nothing about anything but himself and those things that will keep him in power. And who is willing to do whatever it takes to keep himself in power, up to and including destroying our democracy.
                    The left have been deplorable against Trump since 2016.

                    They called him an Existential Threat, racist, xenophobic, anti-science, called anyone who votes for him deplorable, and a host of other things. You created the Trump you deserve.

                    Your whining about poor little perfect gentleman Joey is inconsequential.

                    Joey says Trump is responsible for every single Covid death.

                    That alone is enough to show he is a clown, and he should just shut up.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                      The left have been deplorable against Trump since 2016.

                      They called him an Existential Threat, racist, xenophobic, anti-science, called anyone who votes for him deplorable, and a host of other things. You created the Trump you deserve.

                      Your whining about poor little perfect gentleman Joey is inconsequential.

                      Joey says Trump is responsible for every single Covid death.

                      That alone is enough to show he is a clown, and he should just shut up.
                      Do you agree that undermining faith in elections is an existential threat to any democracy?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                        They do it ALL THE TIME. Where have you been?
                        You and Mountain Man are finding all sorts of ways to avoiding saying "yes" or "no." It isn't a complicated question.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                          The left have been deplorable against Trump since 2016.
                          Trump has been deplorable since taking office - creating a situation where there is a great deal of pushback from the media. In fact, you are like the critics of John in the Bible, in that you "like it" when Trump says things that create a negative response in the media, but then you complain ad nauseum about a negative response to Trump in the media.

                          They called him an Existential Threat, racist, xenophobic, anti-science, called anyone who votes for him deplorable, and a host of other things. You created the Trump you deserve.
                          He IS all those things, Now more than ever. No one 'created' Trump. Trump created this disaster we are rushing headlong into, and you and others typing tripe like this helped him do it.


                          Your whining about poor little perfect gentleman Joey is inconsequential.
                          I'm not 'whining' about Joe Biden. I'm calling out the hypocrisy of expecting any person to be able to come out of the sort of mud slinging contest Trump created in that debate without having any mud on them.

                          Joey says Trump is responsible for every single Covid death.
                          No, Joe Biden simply states the fact that Trump's anti-science politicized response to covid-19 resulted in about 120,000 more deaths that were necessary - as compared to other countries that did not take an anti-science politicized response to the virus. This forum is the prime example of the sorts of pro-Trump anti-science rhetoric that has killed all those people and that still circulates out there in forums like this where people without a respect for science and truth continue to argue it.

                          That alone is enough to show he is a clown, and he should just shut up.
                          Not at all. But these comments you've just posted are in fact prime examples of the sorts of foolish rhetoric that Trump has engendered and that will destroy our nation if it does not stop.

                          He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                          "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                          Comment


                          • Still seeing chatter from various pundits saying that Biden should skip the next two debates. Does anybody really think they would say that if they genuinely believed that Biden won? Nah. They know that Biden was at the top of his game and only barely managed to go the distance, and that it's not going to get any better from here. I suspect that Biden's anemic presence next to a strong and energetic President Trump scared the Democrats, and they're going to double down on trying to keep him carefully contained.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                              You and Mountain Man are finding all sorts of ways to avoiding saying "yes" or "no." It isn't a complicated question.
                              Is it appropriate? No! Of course not! Did you think anyone would say "yes"?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                                Noted liberals Chris Christie and Rush Limbaugh saw Trump the same way.
                                I don't know what Chris Christie might have said, but Rush Limbaugh claimed that President Trump was loud, boorish, and rude? Not that I can find. Let's go to the source:

                                I’m gonna do my best here to try to remain somewhat facile, cogent, and organized. But man, oh, man. So much about last night, it’s just so frustrating. Trump desperately wanted to debate last night. It was obvious and clear. I thought the first five minutes of this debate last night, I thought it was gonna end up being a grand-slam home run. Trump came ready. He was loaded. He knew what the strategy was. Now, you can disagree with the strategy. I think the strategy was to try to rattle Biden and to facilitate whatever they thought might happen with the mental deficiencies that the candidate has exhibited. The effort was to try to hasten that.

                                And the frustrating thing is that Biden was demonstrating that, and Trump interrupted him rather than let it happen a number of times. That is because Trump desperately wanted to debate. The moderator kept interrupting. The moderator and the questions. And just — get out of the way. You got a debate starting. You got a debate raging. Let them go at it.

                                This is not a question of is the moderator gonna be elected president or is the moderator’s job performance gonna matter a hill of beans in terms of the future of the country. Let the candidates engage. Let the audience decide who’s more in command of facts and more in command of the stage. Instead of this silly attempt to enforce a bunch of rules. Let the candidates enforce the rules. Let’s find out who can stand up for themselves and who can’t.

                                [...]

                                It was rather obvious to me that Biden did not want to debate. He wanted to mumble a bunch of facts he wrote down and he wanted to make sure he articulated them before he forgot ’em. But Trump wanted a vigorous exchange. He was thwarted every time a debate nearly broke out. You know, part of a free flowing debate is to measure strength and tenacity, assertiveness. Those are all Trump strengths, as well as his record and his accomplishment.

                                [...]

                                Now, I realize a lot of people think that Trump could have brought a different attitude and it would have been better, that he could have brought the Trump of the rallies, that he could have brought… Oh, I don’t think the word they don’t want to say but what they mean is “likability.” You gotta understand — and I think a lot of people do — this is ball game.

                                [...]

                                It was frustrating all the way around. I really thought, folks, after five minutes… I thought Trump was gonna blow Biden away. I thought Trump was calm, he was informed, he was tough. And then it turned into this circus as if Trump didn’t really think or wasn’t aware beforehand what he was up against. I don’t know. It looked to me like Trump wasn’t prepared for the kind of moderator that he got last night.

                                I mean, he adapted after a while, but it looked like he was… I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong. It looked like he was a little taken aback. He seemed surprised that Biden would slander him. He seemed surprised that Biden would lie. I can’t believe he was surprised by it, but the way things changed after the first five minutes I just had to wonder — and I had some regrets too.

                                You know, Biden was in the process a number of times of melting down. He was in the process of forgetting what he was saying. He was in the process of losing his place in his mind, his train of thought, and Trump saved him. And the reason Trump saved him was Trump has got so frustrated over the lies that Biden was saying that he just couldn’t resist jumping in and correcting what Biden was saying, which stopped Biden’s meltdowns dead in their tracks.

                                [...]

                                I know many of you think that Trump was a bully, and I know that he makes Millennial women scared. But you know what? Forget bully. We need to get used to the fact that we have somebody who’s going to stand up and fight — and a lot of people saw that last night and appreciated it.

                                RushLimbaugh.com
                                Last edited by Mountain Man; 10-01-2020, 12:42 PM.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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