First Presidential Debate

[shunyadragon]

High point; Trump refused to disavow 'White Supremacy' appealing to his base.

[Sparko]

I think the debate was a train wreck.

I actually felt sorry for Chris Wallace. I think they should have put each candidate in a sound proof booth and given Wallace a mute button.

It was nearly impossible to watch the debate with the constant interrupting (mostly from Trump, but also from Biden).

I think Biden did pretty well. He didn't wander off into the boondocks or forget his place. He seemed all 'there' and no dementia. But I think he went beyond rude and disrespectful for calling Trump names like "clown" and "liar" - I don't recall Trump calling him any names.

Trump scored some points when he pointed out that he did more in 47 months than Biden did in 47 years. And that Biden would have ended up with more dead with COVID if he was in charge because I also remember the democrats pish poshing Trump when he closed down the borders and flights from China and Europe early.

[shunyadragon]

tweet-candace-owens-debate-trump-condemn-white-supremacists-biden-not-blm-antifa.jpg

Fallacy alert: Red Herring.

Fact as before Trump would not condemn 'White Supremacy appealing to his base.

[LiconaFan97]

I don't think there are any substantial number of undecided voters at this point.

If that's true then Trump is toast. He's currently way down nationally and in battlegrounds.

Trump's base is smaller than in 2016. Every day that goes by without a clear victory for him is another major loss. This debate was his best chance to do it. Fewer people are going to tune in for the following debates after last night.

[Whateverman]

Fact as before Trump would not condemn 'White Supremacy appealing to his base.

I think it's important to remember that Trump actually has explicitly condemned racist violence / ideology:

The few times he did actually condemn it, the condemnation was short/casual/offhand, and he seemed to be speaking simply because he knew some of the audience wanted to hear it. His condemnation never appears to be sincere. In the video above, he's clearly reading from a teleprompter - which doesn't necessarily invalidate what he's saying, but given his history with refusing to condemn the same thing at other times, makes it reasonable for someone to conclude he wasn't saying what he himself thought.

Nevertheless, as a critic of the so-called president, I try not to claim he never said something he obviously did - because MY critics are going to focus on that mistake with laser-like vision. It'll be an excuse for them to dismiss everything else I've said at that moment.

[shunyadragon]

I think it's important to remember that Trump actually has explicitly condemned racist violence / ideology:

The few times he did actually condemn it, the condemnation was short/casual/offhand, and he seemed to be speaking simply because he knew some of the audience wanted to hear it. His condemnation never appears to be sincere. In the video above, he's clearly reading from a teleprompter - which doesn't necessarily invalidate what he's saying, but given his history with refusing to condemn the same thing at other times, makes it reasonable for someone to conclude he wasn't saying what he himself thought.

Nevertheless, as a critic of the so-called president, I try not to claim he never said something he obviously did - because MY critics are going to focus on that mistake with laser-like vision. It'll be an excuse for them to dismiss everything else I've said at that moment.

This is true, but the problem is when he is faced with a national audience on the spot he refused to condemn White Supremacy to not antagonize his base. He had his chance to make his position clear on national television and refused to do so. He is slippery enough one cannot say nor deny Trump says one thing or another. He refuses to criticize Putin and shifts into neutral, "I don't know" when it suits him.

[LiconaFan97]

This is true, but the problem is when he is faced with a national audience on the spot he refused to condemn White Supremacy to not antagonize his base. He had his chance to make his position clear on national television and refused to do so. He is slippery enough one cannot say nor deny Trump says one thing or another. He refuses to criticize Putin and shifts into neutral, "I don't know" when it suits him.

It's like Senator Kennedy who laundered Russian propaganda on Fox but then conceded that it was Russian propaganda on either CNN or MSNBC. He can claim he "corrected the record" even though he did it in a way which doesn't get the message to the right folks.

[Mountain Man]

I don't think there are any substantial number of undecided voters at this point.

I saw a poll saying that over 95% of people who watched the debate did so to see how their favored candidate did or for entertainment, and that only like 3% watched to decide who to vote for.

[Mountain Man]

If that's true then Trump is toast. He's currently way down nationally and in battlegrounds.

And Hillary has a better than 90% chance of winning.

We've heard that song and dance before.

[LiconaFan97]

And Hillary has a better than 90% chance of winning.

We've heard that song and dance before.

I'm not claiming victory. I'm just saying that if everyone's minds are made up the available evidence indicates that Trump will lose.

[KingsGambit]

Trump would have been better off had he not spent time before the debate setting an expectation that Biden would not be able to coherently speak/debate. This set a low bar, one that Biden was able to meet, and the upshot was that Biden was able to surpass the expectations set for him.

I can't help but think of when Biden and Sarah Palin debated in 2008. The big narrative was that Palin would make a complete fool of herself on stage, and while I don't think she necessarily "won" that debate, she did come across as well prepared and reasonably spoken, which I think was a net plus for her.

[Mountain Man]

Trump would have been better off had he not spent time before the debate setting an expectation that Biden would not be able to coherently speak/debate. This set a low bar, one that Biden was able to meet, and the upshot was that Biden was able to surpass the expectations set for him.

He didn't have any overt brain freezes like we've seen on many of his live interviews, or at least nothing that Wallace wasn't able to help him snap out of by immediately changing the subject, so I guess that was a "win", but if you listened to what he actually said, his answers were borderline incoherent. He basically talked in circles without really saying anything at all.

[rogue06]

Owens is right - because Wallace is on Biden's side. None of these "news" personalities can hide their preferences; they expose themselves by the questions they ask and don't ask.

Well Chris is now the most vocal anti-Trumper over at Fox now that Shep Smith left (I understand he's about to start up at CNBC soon). Still, it was nothing like what happened back in 2012 during an Obama-Romney debate where the "moderator" CNN's Chief Political Correspondent Candy Crowley, started playing interference for Obama including spouting demonstrably untrue assertions in his defense. It rightfully pretty much drove a stake through her career.

Anywho, Republicans have long understood that when they go into these debates that they'll have to contend with two opponents and plan accordingly

[rogue06]

Trump would have been better off had he not spent time before the debate setting an expectation that Biden would not be able to coherently speak/debate.

An argument that I have presented multiple times. It set a bar so low that merely by showing up he exceeded it.

Still, neither one looked good last night.

[LiconaFan97]

He didn't have any overt brain freezes like we've seen on many of his live interviews, or at least nothing that Wallace wasn't able to help him snap out of by immediately changing the subject, so I guess that was a "win", but if you listened to what he actually said, his answers were borderline incoherent. He basically talked in circles without really saying anything at all.

You only watched 20 minutes.