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First Presidential Debate

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    This is nothing more than a long-winded attempt to justify your own moral failings with self-righteous sophistry. Have you convinced yourself yet? I suspect not.
    No MM, it is not, But I didn't expect you to be able to recognize that fact either. In fact, though I am replying to your comment, I was not replying to you, because you are completely dead to any sort of moral call. I'm just simply trying to put together my thoughts about what keeps happening here wrt this sort of accusation. When you and seanD and others start railing on this, it's nothing more than your own conscience (or what might be left of it) trying to drown out the voice that has stirred it up.

    If you think your conscience is not dead or dying, just consider your defense of the president of the United States so devaluing those that serve him with their lives that he would put them in a motorcade while he has covid-19 and have them drive him by people so he can wave at them. Nope - you are almost completely gone as a moral being MM. It's almost too late for you - you'd best get a handle on it soon.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-05-2020, 11:21 AM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

      No MM, it is not, But I didn't expect you to be able to recognize that fact either. In fact, though I am replying to your comment, I was not replying to you, because you are completely dead to any sort of moral call. I'm just simply trying to put together my thoughts about what keeps happening here wrt this sort of accusation. When you and seanD and others start railing on this, it's nothing more than your own conscience (or what might be left of it) trying to drown out the voice that has stirred it up.

      If you think your conscience is not dead or dying, just consider your defense of the president of the United States so devaluing those that serve him with their lives that he would put them in a motorcade while he has covid-19 and have them drive him by people so he can wave at them. Nope - you are almost completely gone as a moral being MM. It's almost too late for you - you'd best get a handle on it soon.
      Scripture Verse: Matthew 7

      "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

      © Copyright Original Source

      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Scripture Verse: Matthew 7

        "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

        © Copyright Original Source

        Judgement is not my job. I am warning you that your path is leading you to destruction. You have allowed devotion to a man to nearly destroy your conscience. And while judgement is NOT my job, I am told by scripture not to silent when I see such a thing taking place.
        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-05-2020, 11:57 AM.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

          Judgement is not my job. I am warning you that your path is leading you to destruction. You have allowed devotion to a man to nearly destroy your conscience. And while judgement is NOT my job, I am told by scripture not to silent when I see such a thing taking place.
          You are lying to yourself. You say you're not judging me, but then you turn right around and judge me. That is the very worst sort of self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

          Scripture Verse: Romans 2

          Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

          © Copyright Original Source

          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            You are lying to yourself. You say you're not judging me, but then you turn right around and judge me. That is the very worst sort of self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

            Scripture Verse: Romans 2

            Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

            © Copyright Original Source

            MM - as you interpret this, it is impossible for anyone to assess another's deeds as wrong. But since the scripture commands us to correct a brother in sin, you clearly are not understanding this text correctly.

            So - If I see that you are compromising your character as you so often are wrt Trump and I point that out to you, I'm not saying you are worse than me, I'm saying this is a bad thing and I believe you are not the sort of person that wants to do bad things so you need to look at what you are doing and stop. The only thing is, your reaction to such an admonition is always hostile. You seem completely unable to comprehend that my words to you about these things are the same sort of thing a when a friend takes the keys away from their friend who has had too much to drink. You have basically become drunk on Trump and seem to have completely lost your capacity to judge good and bad wrt to him.And I'm trying to get you to sober up, or at least recognize you should not be driving right now (metaphorically speaking of course).
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

              MM - as you interpret this, it is impossible for anyone to assess another's deeds as wrong.
              Nope. Rather, it's saying that if you accuse someone of sinning, 1) you better be darn sure they really are sinning; and 2) you better be darn sure you're not guilty of the same sin yourself. And this is where you get yourself into trouble. For whatever reason, you are so certain of your own righteousness in these matters that you boldly hurl false accusations at your fellow Christians without a hint of introspection and self-awareness. In one thread, you defend the gospel with knowledge and reason; in another, you say some of the most spiteful things about your brothers and sisters in Christ.

              Scripture Verse: James 3

              From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.

              © Copyright Original Source

              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Nope. Rather, it's saying that if you accuse someone of sinning, 1) you better be darn sure they really are sinning; and 2) you better be darn sure you're not guilty of the same sin yourself. And this is where you get yourself into trouble. For whatever reason, you are so certain of your own righteousness in these matters that you boldly hurl false accusations at your fellow Christians without a hint of introspection and self-awareness. In one thread, you defend the gospel with knowledge and reason; in another, you say some of the most spiteful things about your brothers and sisters in Christ.

                Scripture Verse: James 3

                From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.

                © Copyright Original Source

                MM - I've done my best by you. But I'm not going to push this any further. Your support of Trump in his immoral and destructive behavior make you liable for what he is doing. You have lost sight of what is good and bad wrt to him and are constantly seen justifying grossly immoral acts by him - including sunday's reckless endangerment of his security personnel And I've tried to wake you up to the evil you are perpetuating by doing that. But you will not listen, and my responsibility in the matter is fulfilled. The rest is between you and God.

                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                  MM - I've done my best by you.
                  No, you really haven't. You've just about done your worst with your constant hypocrisy and false accusations. That you see this as your "best" says quite a lot about you.

                  Scripture Verse: Matthew 12

                  "You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    You mean like when Trump
                    • accused Russia of deploying land-based cruise missiles saying that they violated the "spirit and intent" of the 1987 Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty -- something Obama refused to do?
                    • bombed Syria's Shayrat Airbase (Russia's allies) when they use chemical weapons in 2017?
                    • again bombed Syrian forces in 2018 killing over 200 Russian "mercenaries"?
                    • tried to get Merkel to stop importing natural gas from Russia which would deal a serious blow to the Russian economy?
                    • sent weapons, including a bunch of anti-tank missiles, to Ukraine so they can fight the Russians?
                    • imposed stricter sanctions[1] than those initially called for by Congress including imposing sanctions on Ramzan Kadyrov, a close Putin ally?
                    • ordered the expulsion of 60 Russian diplomats and closure of Russian consulate in Seattle in response to Russia's poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal (Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov declared that the expulsion of the total of 153 Russian diplomats by 28 countries was the result of the Trump Administration "blackmailing" other nations)?
                    • approved sanctions placed on builders of the Nord Stream 2 Russia-to-Germany gas pipelines?

                    That sort of "constant caving to putin"?





                    1. to be fair this has been a bit of a mixed bag in that earlier Trump expressed reluctance about enforcing some sanctions that he had signed into law.
                    Actually what I meant is:

                    publicly on an international stage, taking putin's 'pledge of innocents' over the US intelligence agencies
                    Ignoring the targeting of American soldiers
                    Ignoring the saault on American soldiers by russians
                    holding aid from Ukraine while his consigliere tried to muscle them for non existent dirt on Biden while in a war with russia
                    refusing to impose sanctions even after law passed by the Congress
                    asking for Russia's help to hack Clinton's server for dirt
                    not taking seriously russian efforts to impact the 2020 election
                    never having the brass to tell putin publicly to back the hell off from our electlions
                    rahter than our Syrian withdrawal being a thorn to Russia, it was a boon

                    stuff like that

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by thormas View Post

                      Actually what I meant is:

                      publicly on an international stage, taking putin's 'pledge of innocents' over the US intelligence agencies
                      Ignoring the targeting of American soldiers
                      Ignoring the saault on American soldiers by russians
                      holding aid from Ukraine while his consigliere tried to muscle them for non existent dirt on Biden while in a war with russia
                      refusing to impose sanctions even after law passed by the Congress
                      asking for Russia's help to hack Clinton's server for dirt
                      not taking seriously russian efforts to impact the 2020 election
                      never having the brass to tell putin publicly to back the hell off from our electlions
                      rahter than our Syrian withdrawal being a thorn to Russia, it was a boon

                      stuff like that
                      Only problem is, most of those things on your list are political hokum.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seanD View Post

                        Only problem is, most of those things on your list are political hokum.
                        And some others are duplicates (or near duplicates) of others on the list. i.e. "padding"
                        Last edited by Ronson; 10-05-2020, 04:09 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seanD View Post

                          Only problem is, most of those things on your list are political hokum.


                          Sure they (at least in your mind) and the trumpster is the biggest presidential hokum, the biggest joke........... ever unleashed on the US.

                          Last edited by thormas; 10-05-2020, 04:08 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                            Are some others are duplicates (or near duplicates) of others on the list. i.e. "padding"
                            Not padding, just doubling down as the trumpster is infamous for.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              No, you really haven't. You've just about done your worst with your constant hypocrisy and false accusations. That you see this as your "best" says quite a lot about you.

                              Scripture Verse: Matthew 12

                              "You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              Yeah, it says I care and am not willing to accept what Trump has done to the country and the compronises the evangelical church has made to support him.

                              May God forgive you - you really have no idea what you are doing.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                                Yeah, it says I care and am not willing to accept what Trump has done to the country and the compronises the evangelical church has made to support him.
                                I do agree with you on the trumpster's failings and on the failure of the evangelical church. How have they missed his lies, misogyny, racism, bullying, more lies, affairs...............but I bet they liked his church photo op in DC. Good times except for the good people, including the many Christians on the ground (literally).

                                Comment

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