First Presidential Debate

[LiconaFan97]

Oh please. This is just you pontificating your typical sanctimonious bullcrap. Trump was part of an elite system that was corrupt, and now he's part of an entire governmental system that's corrupt. Nothing new about that whatsoever. Obama was just as corrupt, in fact more bloodthirsty (drone bombing children and assassinating US citizens), just more "presidential" (fake) about it. And don't start that phony spiel about racism because I'll go off on you. You support a political fake who called black communities "racial jungles" and worked with bonafide anti-black racists to pass national policy against blacks, and who has the audacity to falsely smear a 17 year old as a white supremacist just so he can appease a movement that YOU also support that is the cause of chaos and divide in this country over lies and false facts, just so you can feel better about your own internal racism that you project onto everyone here that disagrees with you.

You can dislike Obama's behavior in a number of areas if you want but he was not corrupt. Republicans controlled the house the last six years of Obama's term, the Senate the last two years, and there was a Republican FBI director. He compares favorably to all other recent presidents in that regard.

[LiconaFan97]

You can dislike Obama's behavior in a number of areas if you want but he was not corrupt. Republicans controlled the house the last six years of Obama's term, the Senate the last two years, and there was a Republican FBI director. He compares favorably to all other recent presidents in that regard.

I left out that Obama had no indictments, which was my point.

[seanD]

You can dislike Obama's behavior in a number of areas if you want but he was not corrupt. Republicans controlled the house the last six years of Obama's term, the Senate the last two years, and there was a Republican FBI director. He compares favorably to all other recent presidents in that regard.

Yeah, okay. Now I know to take you about as seriously as Ox on this issue.

I left out that Obama had no indictments, which was my point.

This is true, as he's part of an elite class of untouchables that are subjugated to a totally different judicial system than the rest of us plebs. He was a much a war criminal as Bush. See this is thing, there is no systemic racism, but there is definitely systemic classism.

[LiconaFan97]

Yeah, okay. Now I know to take you about as seriously as Ox on this issue.




This is true, as he's part of an elite class of untouchables that are subjugated to a totally different judicial system than the rest of us plebs. He was a much a war criminal as Bush. See this is thing, there is no systemic racism, but there is definitely systemic classism.

You sound like you have a very low opinion of the Republican party if they couldn't find even a scrap of dirt on Obama and his administration for corruption despite controlling both chambers of Congress and the FBI.

There is both systemic racism and systemic classism. Maybe you don't think both exist because so many blacks are trapped in the lower class? Social mobility in this country is staggeringly low.

[oxmixmudd]

Oh please. This is just you pontificating your typical sanctimonious bullcrap. Trump was part of an elite system that was corrupt, and now he's part of an entire governmental system that's corrupt. Nothing new about that whatsoever. Obama was just as corrupt, in fact more bloodthirsty (drone bombing children and assassinating US citizens), just more "presidential" (fake) about it. And don't start that phony spiel about racism because I'll go off on you. You support a political fake who called black communities "racial jungles" and worked with bonafide anti-black racists to pass national policy against blacks, and who has the audacity to falsely smear a 17 year old as a white supremacist just so he can appease a movement that YOU also support that is the cause of chaos and divide in this country over lies and false facts, just so you can feel better about your own internal racism that you project onto everyone here that disagrees with you.

Sanctimonious? You seem to be unaware of the difference between righteousness and self-righteiusness. Holding up the biblical standard of morality and goodness as what is best and in fact required of all of us is not self-righteousness, it is what we are called to, what we are saved for. Grace is not license to sin, and what is good and what is bad has not suddenly been reversed on the cross. The salvation of christ fees us from the curse of sin and death, it does not redefine what sin is.

Nowhere in scripture are we encourage to excused sin. But we are to have compassion on those that are lost in their sins, but not so as to excuse sin but rather to bring to them the saving knowledge of Christ.

Donald Trumps sin still condemns him apart from christ, and without repentance their is no salvation from those sins. Sin is bad because it destroys us seanD. And that is True of Trump as leader as it is of any of us. And when we excuse his sin, especially his gross sins of the absolute worship of himself over all else, we bring upon ourselves the same condemnation and judgement he brings on himself unless he repents of it and follows Christ.

God is not mocked. And this is no video game with multiple lives and do-overs. You, we all need to sober up and start praying that trump will change or be removed, or there will literally be Hell to pay.

[Mountain Man]

You can dislike Obama's behavior in a number of areas if you want but he was not corrupt.

In fact Obama ran one of the most opaque and corrupt presidential administrations in my lifetime. Surely you can't have forgotten "Fast and Furious", the stimulus slush fund, the IRS targetting scheme, Benghazi, using the force of the Federal government to intimidate and imprison journalists, flying pallets of cash into Iran in the middle of the night, and, of course, giving the okay to target Trump and his campaign with false accusations of conspiring with the Russian government to win the election. There's more, but that's just what I happen to remember at the moment.

[Mountain Man]

You seem to be unaware of the difference between righteousness and self-righteiusness.

This is possibly the most ironic thing you've ever said.

[oxmixmudd]

This is possibly the most ironic thing you've ever said.

You only think that because you are as confused about the topic as seanD is.

read carefully my second sentence:

Holding up the biblical standard of morality and goodness as what is best and in fact required of all of us is not self-righteousness, it is what we are called to, what we are saved for.

That 'standard' MM is Christ Himself - in case you had forgotten. And our lives and our words are now to be the bearers of that same standard. Something impossible apart from the Holy Spirit indwelling and empowering us to live such a life. But too many posting in these pages act as if such a life is to be despised, spat upon, avoided.

We are not saved to continue living in sin MM, nor are we allowed to excuse sin and say 'It matters not, after all, Christ has covered all our sins". Without repentance there is no salvation. Without a call to repentance, there is no gospel. The Good News is that Christ has saved us from the consequences of our sins. Self-righteousness is the idea that I am somehow better than someone else. righteousness is the standard which Christ had to meet in order to save us, and the standard that he saves us for. When we sin, there is an advocate for us, but we can't because of His Grace just decide sin is unimportant or harmless.

Donald Trump serves only himself. And he is destroying our country servicing that idol. And it is not 'self-righteousness' that causes me to say that, it is simply the truth, a sad truth, but the truth. And for the Christians to be all in on that is actually an abomination. We can't be all in on that. Not because any of us is actually any 'better' that Donald Trump in the eternal sense. But because in Christ that is not who we are or what Christ saved us for.

[Mountain Man]

You only think that because you are as confused about the topic as seanD is.

No, it's because you're a bald-faced hypocrite without an ounce of self-awareness.

[oxmixmudd]

No, it's because you're a bald-faced hypocrite without an ounce of self-awareness.

May God bless you MM.

[Bill the Cat]

Steve Scully — who will serve as moderator for the next debate on Oct. 15 and is a longtime C-SPAN host — was an intern for then-Delaware senator Joe Biden for one month in 1978, according to a biography published by George Washington University.

[Mountain Man]

May God bless you MM.

Don't worry, he has.

[Christian3]

President Trump's "stand down" comment was explained on a segment of CBS news.

"they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work."

The Proud Boys were founded in 2016 by Vice Media co-founder Gavin McInnes.

Comments by President Trump:

"Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.

And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America".

Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

Trump, Aug. 15, 2017: I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

[Maranatha]

Regarding NK and Iran, no idea where you get your info but it is very, very wrong.

I asked about whether undermining faith in elections is an existential threat to democracy. The answer is clearly yes as history has shown. But honestly you sound too nihilistic for me.

You are very, very, very, very wrong. Well that's persuasive.

I'm not surprised you forget the past.

[seanD]

Sanctimonious? You seem to be unaware of the difference between righteousness and self-righteiusness. Holding up the biblical standard of morality and goodness as what is best and in fact required of all of us is not self-righteousness, it is what we are called to, what we are saved for. Grace is not license to sin, and what is good and what is bad has not suddenly been reversed on the cross. The salvation of christ fees us from the curse of sin and death, it does not redefine what sin is.

Nowhere in scripture are we encourage to excused sin. But we are to have compassion on those that are lost in their sins, but not so as to excuse sin but rather to bring to them the saving knowledge of Christ.

Donald Trumps sin still condemns him apart from christ, and without repentance their is no salvation from those sins. Sin is bad because it destroys us seanD. And that is True of Trump as leader as it is of any of us. And when we excuse his sin, especially his gross sins of the absolute worship of himself over all else, we bring upon ourselves the same condemnation and judgement he brings on himself unless he repents of it and follows Christ.

God is not mocked. And this is no video game with multiple lives and do-overs. You, we all need to sober up and start praying that trump will change or be removed, or there will literally be Hell to pay.

You're a sanctimonious hypocrite because you support an evil government and evil political system like the rest of us. You're no different. The only way any of us as Christians could escape that is not get involved in politics on a federal level at all, so we're all guilty of supporting an evil secular system, including you. And you support the lies of BLM on top of that. You support false facts about black killings, and the consequences of those lies it's having in our streets across the nation (and the evil that is coming on the heels of that) as a result of those lies and false facts.