Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Trump's taxes leaked

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    That's possibly the most naive thing you've said yet. Taxes are not charity, and if you think they are, then shame on you for ever taking a deduction.
    Which countries take care of their poor without taxes and how well do they do compared to western countries?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post
      Which countries take care of their poor without taxes and how well do they do compared to western countries?
      Western countries have higher taxes. The third world has lower taxes.

      Some people might reasonably draw conclusions.

      Within the OECD, higher taxes correlate with higher average happiness. The happiest countries in the world tend to also have the highest taxes in the world. Again some people might reasonably draw conclusions.

      I sure do.
      Last edited by Starlight; 09-30-2020, 04:02 AM.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        So as far as Trump's taxes are concerned, there is nothing illegal or immoral.
        Setting aside for a moment, the many, many things in Trump's taxes that are strongly suspicious or suggestive of illegal and immoral things... you are aware of the part of the story, right, where the IRS is literally pursuing him to this day due to him illegally claiming a $73 million rebate?

        Literally, the US government, at this point in time, is chasing Trump for $73 million in tax illegalities. So your statement that there's nothing illegal or immoral seems flatly false.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
          Setting aside for a moment, the many, many things in Trump's taxes that are strongly suspicious or suggestive of illegal and immoral things... you are aware of the part of the story, right, where the IRS is literally pursuing him to this day due to him illegally claiming a $73 million rebate?

          Literally, the US government, at this point in time, is chasing Trump for $73 million in tax illegalities. So your statement that there's nothing illegal or immoral seems flatly false.
          That's a 10-yeard old case, and we know nothing about the particulars, so...
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

            If it turns out to be true, would it be inappropriate if I yawned?

            Joey enriched his family in a rather shocking way and no one seems to care.

            Maybe you offer reason for me to care?

            Yet another conspiracy theory in defense of (and echoing) the trumpster.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

              Which countries take care of their poor without taxes and how well do they do compared to western countries?
              If we follow your argument to its logical conclusion then it is a sin to claim deductions, but you said earlier that it's not immoral for people to claim deductions. Your argument is not consistent.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                If we follow your argument to its logical conclusion then it is a sin to claim deductions, but you said earlier that it's not immoral for people to claim deductions. Your argument is not consistent.
                Please answer the question I asked. Which countries don't rely on taxes to take care of the poor and how well do they do compared to western countries?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                  Please answer the question I asked. Which countries don't rely on taxes to take care of the poor and how well do they do compared to western countries?
                  Your question is not relevant, because taxes are not charity.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Your question is not relevant, because taxes are not charity.
                    I said taxes were how we take care of the poor and you said that statement was naive. So you must think that the proper way to take care of the poor is through charity. I'm asking how well countries that rely on charity to take care of the poor do.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                      I said taxes were how we take care of the poor and you said that statement was naive.
                      It is naive. Taxes are the worst way imaginable to care for the poor. Government waste is staggering, and most programs seem almost intentionally designed to keep poor people poor (read about the "welfare trap" some time). Considering the amount of money lavished on the system, if government programs could win the war against poverty, then we should have been victorious decades ago. So, no, rich people taking deductions does not hurt poor people.

                      And you're still stuck with your contradiction implying that it is both immoral and not immoral to claim deductions.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        It is naive. Taxes are the worst way imaginable to care for the poor. Government waste is staggering, and most programs seem almost intentionally designed to keep poor people poor (read about the "welfare trap" some time). Considering the amount of money lavished on the system, if government programs could win the war against poverty, then we should have been victorious decades ago. So, no, rich people taking deductions does not hurt poor people.

                        And you're still stuck with your contradiction implying that it is both immoral and not immoral to claim deductions.
                        I don't know how to "win the war on poverty" and I don't know that it's possible even with 101% tax rates. That doesn't change the fact that taxes are how we take care of the poor in the western world. If there is a different system which is superior please share it and I will support it. Cutting taxes on the rich doesn't seem to have done any better than using taxes to take care of the poor.

                        Claiming that I oppose all deductions doesn't even qualify as a straw man. If I believed that I'd have to believe that taking deductions for actual donations to charity or church were immoral. Clearly I don't believe that.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                          I don't know how to "win the war on poverty" and I don't know that it's possible even with 101% tax rates. That doesn't change the fact that taxes are how we take care of the poor in the western world. If there is a different system which is superior please share it and I will support it. Cutting taxes on the rich doesn't seem to have done any better than using taxes to take care of the poor.

                          Claiming that I oppose all deductions doesn't even qualify as a straw man. If I believed that I'd have to believe that taking deductions for actual donations to charity or church were immoral. Clearly I don't believe that.
                          So you believe only some deductions are immoral. Hello special pleading.

                          The fact that you can't think of a better system to help the poor than the broken government entitlement programs is a rather sad statement on your part. You talk like someone who is very young with little life experience. I don't know if that's the case, but it's how you come across. And since you agree that the war on poverty doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not rich people pay as much in taxes as you apparently think they should, then it would seem there's nowhere else for this debate to go.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            So you believe only some deductions are immoral. Hello special pleading.
                            It's not special pleading. Some deductions are permissible and some are immoral. Clearly a deduction for an actual donation to charity or church is permissible. Clearly a deduction for hair maintenance which is not "reasonable and customary" is not. You're committing the line drawing fallacy. Just because we can't perfectly identify where the line between moral and immoral is doesn't mean that the line doesn't exist.


                            The fact that you can't think of a better system to help the poor than the broken government entitlement programs is a rather sad statement on your part. You talk like someone who is very young with little life experience. I don't know if that's the case, but it's how you come across. And since you agree that the war on poverty doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not rich people pay as much in taxes as you apparently think they should, then it would seem there's nowhere else for this debate to go.
                            Ok. You have far more life experience. Please share your wisdom with the group on a superior system to what we already have. You will absolutely convert me to your point of view if you can propose something superior.

                            Comment

                            Related Threads

                            Collapse

                            Topics Statistics Last Post
                            Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                            16 responses
                            155 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post One Bad Pig  
                            Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                            53 responses
                            400 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Mountain Man  
                            Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                            25 responses
                            114 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post rogue06
                            by rogue06
                             
                            Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                            33 responses
                            198 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post Roy
                            by Roy
                             
                            Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                            84 responses
                            373 views
                            0 likes
                            Last Post JimL
                            by JimL
                             
                            Working...
                            X