Trump's taxes leaked

[LiconaFan97]

As stated, given that Democrats will either lie or result to illegal means about the tax returns. It's better to not release them, and let the democrats do the immoral stuff to release them, and then call them out on it.

Feel free to identify the shady stuff in those tax returns. I seriously doubt they'd release them on the day of the first debate if there was something shady in them.

[Mountain Man]

I know in your gut you know that this is wrong, even if legal.

I don't believe it's wrong.

[LiconaFan97]

I don't believe it's wrong.

Sorry but I simply don't believe that.

[Mountain Man]

Sorry but I simply don't believe that.

The last refuge of those without a compelling argument.

[CivilDiscourse]

Feel free to identify the shady stuff in those tax returns. I seriously doubt they'd release them on the day of the first debate if there was something shady in them.

Non Sequitor. I never claimed anything about "shady stuff" in those tax returns. Please try again.

[LiconaFan97]

The last refuge of those without a compelling argument.

Your perspective is clearly unbiblical. Not everything is straightforward but this issue is. But if you have some verses which can justify the rich paying less in taxes than those with far less I'd be happy to read them.

[LiconaFan97]

Non Sequitor. I never claimed anything about "shady stuff" in those tax returns. Please try again.

Sorry, I misinterpreted you use of "immoral stuff."

[CivilDiscourse]

Sorry, I misinterpreted you use of "immoral stuff."

Nope, I was talking about all the immoral stuff that democrats/liberals will do to force a release. Like lie on the senate floor, break federal laws, etc. In order to get the information they want released out there.

[LiconaFan97]

Nope, I was talking about all the immoral stuff that democrats/liberals will do to force a release. Like lie on the senate floor, break federal laws, etc. In order to get the information they want released out there.

The taxes weren't leaked by the Democrats though. The NY AG didn't even grab them from Mazars when they had a legal 48 hour window to do so.

Why are you so opposed to seeing Trump's tax returns? I won't disagree that people shouldn't break the law. But why shouldn't we take them into account in judging Trump's character?

[CivilDiscourse]

The taxes weren't leaked by the Democrats though. The NY AG didn't even grab them from Mazars when they had a legal 48 hour window to do so.

Why are you so opposed to seeing Trump's tax returns? I won't disagree that people shouldn't break the law. But why shouldn't we take them into account in judging Trump's character?

We'll have to wait to see who actually leaked them. But, dollars to donuts, it was a liberal/democrat supporter who did so. Is it possible it was a conservative who leaked tax returns damaging to trump, yes....but not likely.

I'm not opposed to seeing them. But as I stated, given the democrats penitent for immoral obtainment of tax returns (including Harr Reid's lie attempting to force more out of Romney) I stand by my stance that the better strategy is to not release them, and let democrats get their hands dirty to release them.

[Mountain Man]

Your perspective is clearly unbiblical. Not everything is straightforward but this issue is. But if you have some verses which can justify the rich paying less in taxes than those with far less I'd be happy to read them.

Ooh, now comes the "You're not a Real Christian^TM if you disagree with me!" routine.

The only thing Jesus said about taxes is to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. He didn't specify any guidelines for tax codes, so trying to turn this into a moral issue is a red herring. Tell me, do you claim even so much as a single deduction when filing your taxes? If yes, then you're a bald faced hypocrite. Per your argument, you should pay as much as you possibly can in order to ensure that you're on the straight and narrow.

[LiconaFan97]

Ooh, now comes the "You're not a Real Christian^TM if you disagree with me!" routine.

The only thing Jesus said about taxes is to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. He didn't specify any guidelines for tax codes, so trying to turn this into a moral issue is a red herring. Tell me, do you claim even so much as a single deduction when filing your taxes? If yes, then you're a bald faced hypocrite. Per your argument, you should pay as much as you possibly can in order to ensure that you're on the straight and narrow.

I didn't say you weren't a Christian. I said your perspective is unbiblical. I assume you're a protestant so you probably think a lot of the stuff I believe is unbiblical.

Jesus didn't say much about the American tax code. You are correct. Jesus also didn't speak on abortion. Clearly we are intended to interpret his words in our modern age. Are you really saying he'd be ok with a billionaire paying less than the poor year after year after year? I can't even visualize that in my mind.

It doesn't make me hypocrite to claim deductions. And it doesn't make Trump or you immoral to claim them. Otherwise it would be immoral even to claim church donations as a deduction which can't possibly be true. If you're really unsure about my point I'm happy to clarify.

[Mountain Man]

Jesus didn't say much about the American tax code. You are correct. Jesus also didn't speak on abortion. Clearly we are intended to interpret his words in our modern age. Are you really saying he'd be ok with a billionaire paying less than the poor year after year after year? I can't even visualize that in my mind.

Taxes have never really hurt the rich, not even in Jesus' day, and yet the only thing he said about it was to pay Caesar whatever he asks for. So I think as long as you pay your taxes in a legal manner, even if it means taking every deduction you possibly can and paying nothing, Jesus is pleased. So as far as Trump's taxes are concerned, there is nothing illegal or immoral.

Now where Jesus really put the burden on the rich was to use their wealth to care for the poor, and on that score, I don't think there are many politicians who come out particularly well. I really admire how Christian singer/songwriter the late Rich Mullins handled giving. He was worth millions, but he instructed his accountant to only pay him an average working man's salary and give all the rest to charity. In fact, Mullins never had a clear idea exactly how much money he made.

[LiconaFan97]

Taxes have never really hurt the rich, not even in Jesus' day, and yet the only thing he said about it was to pay Caesar whatever he asks for. So I think as long as you pay your taxes in a legal manner, even if it means taking every deduction you possibly can and paying nothing, Jesus is pleased. So as far as Trump's taxes are concerned, there is nothing illegal or immoral.

Now where Jesus really put the burden on the rich was to use their wealth to care for the poor, and on that score, I don't think there are many politicians who come out particularly well. I really admire how Christian singer/songwriter the late Rich Mullins handled giving. He was worth millions, but he instructed his accountant to only pay him an average working man's salary and give all the rest to charity. In fact, Mullins never had a clear idea exactly how much money he made.

If taxes didn't hurt the rich they wouldn't constantly seek to cut them until their effective tax rate was far below that of Americans with so much less. When you say ridiculous stuff like that it makes it easy to dismiss everything else you say, even when you want to be taken seriously.

Jesus was very explicit that it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven (obviously he meant us to take him seriously but not literally). He did ask that rich man to give everything to the poor. Is it really a stretch to take that statement, from a time without anything like a modern government or welfare system, to imply that in the modern day the rich are expected to pay what it takes to support those in our country with very little? Just because something is legal doesn't make it moral (see abortion, weed, whatever you want).

Taxes are how we take care of the poor in the modern day. If charitable giving were anything like adequate we wouldn't have the numbers of poor and hungry we have today. Taxes on the rich are what drives overall tax revenue because of obvious reasons. I know you understand this but are for reasons unclear absolutely wedded to far right perspectives on this issue.

[Mountain Man]

Taxes are how we take care of the poor in the modern day.

That's possibly the most naive thing you've said yet. Taxes are not charity, and if you think they are, then shame on you for ever taking a deduction.