Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Trump's taxes leaked

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

    Yes it is. It's actually even more impressive because he still refuses to take the POTUS salary.
    He donates his salary while steering far more into his businesses, much of which is paid by the tax payers. I'm not impressed.


    And he paid more than my millionaire in-laws, who paid almost nothing. Ergo, nothing burger.
    I don't know their specific tax situation. But Trump claims to be not a millionaire but a billionaire with a large number of businesses.


    And have yet to show any leverage as a result. Which was the entire reason behind this tax return witch hunt.

    Since when is the NYT a law enforcement agency? They broke the law by disclosing his returns without his consent. And as an aside, they haven't been able to show ANY fraud.
    New York State is investigating him and his kids for tax fraud. These tax returns don't directly show that he his compromised (well, they do but lets not get into that). They do show evidence of tax fraud. He wrote off personal expenses as business expenses and they are at odds with the numbers he used to secure loans over the years.


    He isn't broke. He owns properties that have real value. Once he leaves office, he will have his regular salary, speaking engagements, and book deals.
    Potential future earnings don't make one not broke. These tax returns show him losing money year after year. He has more than $400M of loans which come due in the next four years. He doesn't appear to have the money he needs to pay those loans if he's losing the massive quantities of money he claims he is losing on these returns.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

      Most of the country gets a tax return, meaning, in this context, they pay nothing in taxes.
      Until the 2018 tax bill I got a tax refund every year. That's because I paid more in taxes than I actually owed. My net tax bill was still in the 10s of thousands.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        As I've heard it said, I'm not worried about the billionaire who became a politician, I'm worried about the politicians who became multi-millionaires after being elected. Those are the people the media should be interested in. For instance, how is it that Nancy Pelosi is worth far more today than what can be accounted for based on her congressman's salary?
        Sounds good. Now do McConnell.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          In a lot of cases, the minimum wage worker gets more in refunds than what they paid in income tax throughout the year, so they actually come out ahead after filing their tax returns.
          Can you provide a link or something? I never earned minimum wage so I never heard of the IRS just giving you money.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            It seems the New York Times is counting on its readers being generally ignorant of how businesses and tax laws operate...

            The article’s most basic problem is that it assumes that the losses Trump reported on his taxes are actual economic losses. But that’s highly unlikely due to the nature of his business. As a real estate investor, Trump was not in a position of a store owner selling inventory below cost and incurring operating losses. Instead, he would have been reducing his reported income by the amount of his interest payments on loans and the depreciation of the property he owned.

            This can be a powerful combination that can create what are, essentially, illusionary losses that reduce taxes but inflate an owner’s bank account. What’s more, the bigger the portfolio is of assets owned, the larger the write-offs will be for interest and depreciation.

            Take the simplest example. A guy buys an apartment building worth $10 million. For simplicity’s sake, let’s say he bought it with cash. Each and every year for the next 27.5 years he will get to write-down his income by around $370,000. If his tenants pay him $300,000 in rent after basic expenses, he’ll declare a loss of $70,000 on his taxes. His net worth has declined on paper, but he has $300,000 more in cash every year. And if the rent payments ever exceed the depreciation amount, he’ll get to use those old accumulated losses to offset the new income.

            In the real world, of course, things are more complicated than our simple example. Buildings are bought with loans, which require interest payments that count as business expenses and reduce both actual income and taxable income. And there are other operating expenses associated with upkeep and maintenance.

            So imagine our guy took out an $8 million mortgage at five percent, paying $2 million cash. Now he’s got to pay $400,000 in mortgage payments. He wants to make at least that much so he charges tenants an aggregate of $425,000, which after upkeep comes out to $410,000 of net income. (Remember, if the bank didn’t think he could make more in rent than the mortgage payment, it probably wouldn’t have lent him the money.) The interest payment on the loan–let’s call it $390,000–is deductible from his income, leaving him with $20,000 in net income. He gets to keep that and pay no taxes on it, however, because he still gets to apply the $370,000 depreciation charge. He tells the IRS he lost $350,000.

            Under our tax code, ordinary business expenses can be deducted in the year they are incurred. But when a business pays for a long-lasting item expected to produce income–like machinery, vehicles, or an apartment building–it is considered a capital investment. Instead of getting to write-off the cost all at once, the business is required to write it off over the course of decades. After the 1986 tax code, this was set at 27.5 years for residential real estate.

            [...]

            The president indicated Tuesday that something like this is exactly what explained his tax losses:

            Real estate developers in the 1980’s & 1990’s, more than 30 years ago, were entitled to massive write offs and depreciation which would, if one was actively building, show losses and tax losses in almost all cases. Much was non monetary. Sometimes considered “tax shelter", you would get it by building, or even buying. You always wanted to show losses for tax purposes....almost all real estate developers did - and often re-negotiate with banks, it was sport. Additionally, the very old information put out is a highly inaccurate Fake News hit job!


            Breitbart.com

            The Times also failed to mention the tens of millions of dollars Trump and his businesses have paid in payroll, property, and sales taxes.
            When you sell the property you owe the IRS for the depreciation deductions you took if the sales price indicates that the property didn't depreciate as much as you (legally) claimed. So while there is some truth in what "you" wrote it's not as simple as it presents.

            Comment


            • #81
              Trump has now indicated that these taxes were illegally obtained. So I guess not "fake news" after all.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                Can you provide a link or something? I never earned minimum wage so I never heard of the IRS just giving you money.
                They're called "refundable tax credits". For instance, if you have dependents, then you can receive the child tax credit (around $2000 per child) as a refund even if you pay no taxes for the year, which is most likely to be the case for someone earning minimum wage.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  They're called "refundable tax credits". For instance, if you have dependents, then you can receive the child tax credit (around $2000 per child) as a refund even if you pay no taxes for the year, which is most likely to be the case for someone earning minimum wage.
                  Ok thanks. I didn't have kids until I was far past that point.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post
                    So while there is some truth in what "you" wrote it's not as simple as it presents.
                    Of course it's not simple. The article obviously simplified it to make it easier for the average person to understand, but the point is, Trump's taxes do not show anything suspicious or out of the ordinary for a businessman and real estate mogul.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                      Ok thanks. I didn't have kids until I was far past that point.
                      There are other refundable credits. For instance:: "The Earned Income Tax Credit, EITC or EIC, is a benefit for working people with low to moderate income. To qualify, you must meet certain requirements and file a tax return, even if you do not owe any tax or are not required to file. EITC reduces the amount of tax you owe and may give you a refund."
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Of course it's not simple. The article obviously simplified it to make it easier for the average person to understand, but the point is, Trump's taxes do not show anything suspicious or out of the ordinary for a businessman and real estate mogul.
                        That's simply false. He deducted his hair care as a business expense. And his tax bill is not typical for a successful businessman. He pays far less than the median for others in his (supposed) wealth class.

                        But let's pretend everything is above board. Can't you agree that any system which lets a businessman who owns numerous golf courses and hotels who can scheme to pay not more than $750 in tax in 13 of the past 18 years needs reform, not a further tax cut as occurred in 2018?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                          That's simply false. He deducted his hair care as a business expense. And his tax bill is not typical for a successful businessman. He pays far less than the median for others in his (supposed) wealth class.

                          But let's pretend everything is above board. Can't you agree that any system which lets a businessman who owns numerous golf courses and hotels who can scheme to pay not more than $750 in tax* in 13 of the past 18 years needs reform, not a further tax cut as occurred in 2018?
                          *Federal Income tax

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                            That's simply false. He deducted his hair care as a business expense. And his tax bill is not typical for a successful businessman. He pays far less than the median for others in his (supposed) wealth class.
                            I'm not going to debate the particulars, but so what? Where's the evidence that any of this is illegal?

                            Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                            But let's pretend everything is above board. Can't you agree that any system which lets a businessman who owns numerous golf courses and hotels who can scheme to pay not more than $750 in tax in 13 of the past 18 years needs reform, not a further tax cut as occurred in 2018?
                            Yes, that's what this is really all about, the "have nots" being jealous of the "haves". I have enough to care for my family (living within your means, meaning without debt, is the way to go), so I couldn't care less what Trump does or doesn't pay in taxes.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              I'm not going to debate the particulars, but so what? Where's the evidence that any of this is illegal?
                              It's obviously illegal to deduct personal beauty treatments as a business expense for a real estate developer. Come on.


                              Yes, that's what this is really all about, the "have nots" being jealous of the "haves". I have enough to care for my family (living within your means, meaning without debt, is the way to go), so I couldn't care less what Trump does or doesn't pay in taxes.
                              No, this is about him committing tax fraud and / or bank fraud. That it exposes the manifest unfairness in our current tax system is just a bonus. Don't dodge the question. Does that sound like a fair system to you? Did you pay more than $750 in 13 of the past 18 years? Why do you want to defend the "haves" who have so much more than 99+% of the country who paid so much more back when America was "great"?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Uh-oh...

                                Back in August, the Wall Street Journal’s Chris Jacobs exposed how the Biden family structured what is called an “S-Corp” to avoid paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes.

                                “How the Bidens Dodged the Payroll Tax,” was Jacobs’ headline on Aug. 10.

                                In it, the Journal details how the Bidens set up an S-Corporation to avoid paying more than half a million dollars in taxes they would have otherwise owed.

                                “Joe Biden responded to President Trump’s partial suspension of payroll-tax collections with a statement calling it the ‘first shot in a new, reckless war on Social Security,’” Jacobs wrote. He continued: “‘Our seniors and millions of Americans with disabilities are under enough stress without Trump putting their hard-earned Social Security benefits in doubt.’ Mr. Biden’s objections might be more persuasive had he and his wife, Jill, not gone out of their way to avoid funding seniors’ entitlement benefits. According to their tax returns, in 2017 and 2018 the Bidens and his wife Jill avoided payroll taxes on nearly $13.3 million in income from book royalties and speaking fees. They did so by classifying the income as S-corporation profits rather than taxable wages.”

                                Jacobs continued in his expose by noting the corporation the Bidens established to avoid paying the payroll taxes on millions of dollars in income amounts to more than half a million dollars in taxes that Joe and Jill Biden did not pay.

                                “According to the Urban Institute, a couple featuring one high earner and one average earner, retiring this year, will have paid a total of $209,000 in Medicare taxes during their working lives,” Jacobs wrote. “The Bidens avoided paying nearly twice that much in Medicare taxes during two years. The maximum payroll tax affected by Mr. Trump’s suspension is $1,984—less than 1/250th of the amount the Bidens avoided in 2017-18. The Bidens didn’t avoid any Social Security tax, which applied only to the first $127,200 of income in 2017 and $128,400 in 2018. But they would under Mr. Biden’s tax plan, which would impose the 12.4% Social Security tax on income over $400,000; the same loophole he used in 2017-18 would shield him from his own tax. And how can Mr. Biden claim to protect Medicare and ObamaCare when he avoided more than $500,000 in taxes that fund the two programs? The media have largely ignored the Bidens’ accounting legerdemain, fixating on Mr. Trump’s tax returns instead. But at least the president isn’t looking to raise taxes on everyone else.”

                                The Wall Street Journal is hardly the only outlet to illustrate how the Bidens used this tax code loophole of creating an S-Corporation to save themselves from paying hundreds of thousands—perhaps now millions—of dollars in taxes over the years.

                                Breitbart.com

                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                166 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                400 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                383 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X