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Why is the nationalist right hallucinating a ‘communist enemy’?

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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Well why would he? The article was about the nationalist right.
    So where is your evidence that the Proud Boys are neo-fascist?

    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

      You just said that the reference to homoeroticism (gayness) was a sly joke. Apparently, gayness is a joke to you.
      Well after reading a Proud Boy article I find a link that takes me to a site about acrylic nails and how to remove them. So perhaps the Proud Boys are actually proud to be gay after all! I wonder if they offer any tips on interior design. And I do hope they do not paint their toe nails the same colour as their finger nails, it's so last season!
      Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 09-29-2020, 01:00 PM.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


        Well after reading a Proud Boy article I find a link that takes me to a site about acrylic nails and how to remove them. So perhaps the Proud Boys are actually proud to be gay after all! I wonder if they offer any tips on interior design. And I do hope they do not paint their toe nails the same colour as their finger nails, it's so last season!
        So where is your evidence that the Proud Boys are neo-fascist?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post

          How are the Proud Boys neo-fascist?

          Core Values Of The Proud Boys

          Minimal Government
          Maximum Freedom
          Anti-Political Correctness
          Anti-Drug War
          Closed Borders
          Anti-Racial Guilt
          Anti-Racism
          Pro-Free Speech (1st Amendment)
          Pro-Gun Rights (2nd Amendment)
          Glorifying the Entrepreneur
          Venerating the Housewife
          Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism
          What on earth is "Venerating the housewife"? Kinder Küche Kirche?

          Why do entrepreneurs need to be glorified?

          The Anti Racial Guilt is interesting. That has distinct echoes of what Björn Höck declared at a Bier Hall in Dresden back in 2017 when he announced that Germany should make a “180-degree turn” from the tradition of remembering and atoning for the Nazi era”.

          Furthermore what is "Maximum Freedom"? That ultimately leads to complete anarchy.

          What is Anti-Political Correctness? The right to abuse and revile anyone with whom they do not agree? Oh no of course I also read that the Proud Boys want Boys to Boys and Girls to be Girls. In other words, male chauvinism. Women know your place etc.

          What is “Minimal Government”? And who decides what minimal might be interpreted to be?

          Nor can a group claim to be anti-racist if its founder can tell the NYT in 2003 that “I love being white and I think it's something to be very proud of. I don't want our culture diluted. We need to close the borders now and let everyone assimilate to a Western, white, English-speaking way of life.”

          Neither can borders be closed completely. Or is this group advocating that no -one whatsoever should to be admitted to the USA for any reason?

          I suspect what the Proud Boys really mean is they wish to prevent those with a different skin hue or a different cultural and/or religious belief from entering the country. The Proud Boys ought to remember how their forebears got into the USA.

          From a Proud Boys web article apparently written by “The Elders”: "A Western Chauvinist is a proponent of Western Civilization, someone who supports a secular government whose legal code is informed by Judeo-Christian ethics and whose origins lie in the Greco-Roman tradition of the Republic."[...]

          Well that is a nice little confection of ideas. The American republic was not founded on Graeco-Roman traditions. It was the product of the European Enlightenment. Nor was it founded on Judeo-Christian values. The FFs, or at least those who were most involved in establishing and creating the nation's founding documents and government, did not view America as an explicitly “Christian nation”.

          I would also be very grateful if you, or one of your Proud Boy chums, could explain to me why the phrase “the Greco-Roman tradition” in that extract comes up as a link that takes me to this site https://pielsana.net/belleza/como-re...nas-acrilicas/ which is all about acrylic nails and how to remove them? Is there something the Proud Boys are not telling us all?


          The article continues:

          "When Gavin McInnes describes the tenets of the Proud Boys, he clearly defines Western Chauvinist as such: “it just means a nationalist, a patriot,” i.e. “the West is the best.” That has a distinct core of racism. If the west is the best it is obviously superior to other regions of the world and their cultures and beliefs.


          As for Chauvinism Western or otherwise.

          Chauvinism: zealous and aggressive patriotism or blind enthusiasm for military glory. biased devotion to any group, attitude, or cause: the denigration, disparagement, and patronisation of either sex based on the belief that one sex is inferior to the other and thus deserving of less than equal treatment or benefit.


          Hmm... Sieg Heil!

          .

          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


            Well after reading a Proud Boy article I find a link that takes me to a site about acrylic nails and how to remove them. So perhaps the Proud Boys are actually proud to be gay after all! I wonder if they offer any tips on interior design. And I do hope they do not paint their toe nails the same colour as their finger nails, it's so last season!
            Well, that or ads are triggered by your own search history.....

            Though apparently being gay is a joke to you. Its nice you think it's insulting to be gay.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              What on earth is "Venerating the housewife"? Kinder Küche Kirche?

              Why do entrepreneurs need to be glorified?

              The Anti Racial Guilt is interesting. That has distinct echoes of what Björn Höck declared at a Bier Hall in Dresden back in 2017 when he announced that Germany should make a “180-degree turn” from the tradition of remembering and atoning for the Nazi era”.

              Furthermore what is "Maximum Freedom"? That ultimately leads to complete anarchy.

              What is Anti-Political Correctness? The right to abuse and revile anyone with whom they do not agree? Oh no of course I also read that the Proud Boys want Boys to Boys and Girls to be Girls. In other words, male chauvinism. Women know your place etc.
              Nothing fascist here.

              What is “Minimal Government”? And who decides what minimal might be interpreted to be?

              Nor can a group claim to be anti-racist if its founder can tell the NYT in 2003 that “I love being white and I think it's something to be very proud of. I don't want our culture diluted. We need to close the borders now and let everyone assimilate to a Western, white, English-speaking way of life.”
              So if someone is proud to be Latino or black that makes them racist?


              Neither can borders be closed completely

              . Or is this group advocating that no -one whatsoever should to be admitted to the USA for any reason?

              I suspect what the Proud Boys really mean is they wish to prevent those with a different skin hue or a different cultural and/or religious belief from entering the country. The Proud Boys ought to remember how their forebears got into the USA.
              You do know that there are black Proud Boys, correct?

              Well that is a nice little confection of ideas. The American republic was not founded on Graeco-Roman traditions. It was the product of the European Enlightenment. Nor was it founded on Judeo-Christian values. The FFs, or at least those who were most involved in establishing and creating the nation's founding documents and government, did not view America as an explicitly “Christian nation”.
              Wrong: http://mccannsclass.weebly.com/uploa...government.pdf

              And wrong:https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/

              Both Christianity and Graeco-Roman traditions had a profound influence on the founding of this nation.

              "When Gavin McInnes describes the tenets of the Proud Boys, he clearly defines Western Chauvinist as such: “it just means a nationalist, a patriot,” i.e. “the West is the best.” That has a distinct core of racism. If the west is the best it is obviously superior to other regions of the world and their cultures and beliefs.


              Of course the West is superior. That is not fascist, it is a fact. Where would you rather live? China? And it has nothing to do with race, but ideology.

              As for Chauvinism Western or otherwise.

              Chauvinism: zealous and aggressive patriotism or blind enthusiasm for military glory. biased devotion to any group, attitude, or cause: the denigration, disparagement, and patronisation of either sex based on the belief that one sex is inferior to the other and thus deserving of less than equal treatment or benefit.


              Hmm... Sieg Heil!

              .
              The term Western Chauvinism was defined for you and has nothing to do with the above. None of this is fascist. And Sieg Heil is a motto from your country and not ours.
              Last edited by seer; 09-29-2020, 01:29 PM.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                Well, that or ads are triggered by your own search history.....
                https://officialproudboys.com/uncate...rn-chauvinist/

                Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                Though apparently being gay is a joke to you. Its nice you think it's insulting to be gay.
                I know plenty of gay men who laugh at the stereotypes that abound about them, and some, on occasion, actively play up to those stereotypes purely for fun.


                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  https://officialproudboys.com/uncate...rn-chauvinist/

                  I know plenty of gay men who laugh at the stereotypes that abound about them, and some, on occasion, actively play up to those stereotypes purely for fun.

                  It's an acknowledged fact that those who use a specific group as an insult feel that those used as the insult are "lesser".

                  If you mock a political opponent for being Obese, it means you think it's insulting to be fat.
                  If you mock a political opponent for their looks, it means you think less of those who don't uphold beauty standards.
                  If you mock a political opponent for homoerotic undertones, it means you think less of those who are gay.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                    It's an acknowledged fact that those who use a specific group as an insult feel that those used as the insult are "lesser".

                    If you mock a political opponent for being Obese, it means you think it's insulting to be fat.
                    If you mock a political opponent for their looks, it means you think less of those who don't uphold beauty standards.
                    If you mock a political opponent for homoerotic undertones, it means you think less of those who are gay.
                    This is not surprising considering the persecution of homosexuals in Nazi Germany. Hypatia is just following their example.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Nothing fascist here.
                      What about those who dissent and disagree with those ideas? What do the Proud Boys propose should be done with them?

                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      So if someone is proud to be Latino or black that makes them racist?
                      If a Latino or a black American wants to close the borders, assimilate everyone into what to s/he considers to be an appropriate way of life, and compel everyone to speak his/her language [there are of course many African languages] then it is cultural imperialism and that is a form of racism. It enforces adherence to one language and culture at the expense of all others. I’d also remind Mr McInnes that not all white people speak English.

                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      You do know that there are black Proud Boys, correct?
                      So what? Are you suggesting that racism is only white against black?

                      Is this the best you can offer in defence of your position? A High School worksheet and a link to an overview of an exhibition?

                      The USA has no Lictors carrying the fasces of the Consuls or the Praetors, does it? Does the USA elect annually two magistrates and other subsidiary magistrates? Does it have Tribunes to protect the rights of the Plebians against the Patricians?

                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Both Christianity and Graeco-Roman traditions had a profound influence on the founding of this nation.
                      The founders of your nation were products of the European Enlightenment. However, that is a massive subject in its own right and not one that can be adequately addressed in a forum such as this.

                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Of course the West is superior. That is not fascist, it is a fact.
                      That is cultural imperialism. Where do you imagine civilisation started? It was not in America, it was not white, and it did not speak English.

                      However, cultural imperialism is not an exclusively western phenomenon.

                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      The term Western Chauvinism was defined for you and has nothing to do with the above. None of this is fascist. And Sieg Heil is a motto from your country and not ours.
                      It was not a motto. Appeals to overt nationalism and to the belief that “we” are better/greater/superior to “them”, that “our “way of life is superior to “theirs”, that “our cultural heritage” is superior to “theirs”, the veneration of motherhood/home-makers to force/keep women in a traditional sphere of life, the desire to keep the nation pure and remove/keep out the “other” are all tropes with a very ugly history i.e. fascism.

                      As of 2018 the FBI classified the Proud Boys as an “extremist group”.

                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post

                        This is not surprising considering the persecution of homosexuals in Nazi Germany. Hypatia is just following their example.
                        I suppose you do know that Ernst Röhm and various other members of the SA were homosexuals.
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                          It's an acknowledged fact
                          Is it? Where?

                          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                          that those who use a specific group as an insult feel that those used as the insult are "lesser".
                          . On every single occasion? Where?

                          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                          If you mock a political opponent for being Obese, it means you think it's insulting to be fat.
                          If you mock a political opponent for their looks, it means you think less of those who don't uphold beauty standards.
                          If you mock a political opponent for homoerotic undertones, it means you think less of those who are gay.
                          That sounds dreadfully PC with a distinct hint of the snowflake. I do not think seer would approve. The Proud Boys [a group he clearly admires] are openly Anti Political Correctness.

                          I would also note that humour can be quite cruel. Look back to Greek comedy for examples.
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            I suppose you do know that Ernst Röhm and various other members of the SA were homosexuals.
                            Didn't Hitler kill most of them?
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              However, cultural imperialism is not an exclusively western phenomenon.

                              It was not a motto. Appeals to overt nationalism and to the belief that “we” are better/greater/superior to “them”, that “our “way of life is superior to “theirs”, that “our cultural heritage” is superior to “theirs”, the veneration of motherhood/home-makers to force/keep women in a traditional sphere of life, the desire to keep the nation pure and remove/keep out the “other” are all tropes with a very ugly history i.e. fascism.

                              As of 2018 the FBI classified the Proud Boys as an “extremist group”.
                              Again, fascism has a specific meaning, and the Proud Boys are not that. And if you don't think Western Civilization has produced a superior culture which other culture would you rather live in today? China? North Korea? Iran?

                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                                Is it? Where?

                                . On every single occasion? Where?


                                That sounds dreadfully PC with a distinct hint of the snowflake. I do not think seer would approve. The Proud Boys [a group he clearly admires] are openly Anti Political Correctness.

                                I would also note that humour can be quite cruel. Look back to Greek comedy for examples.
                                Keep hiding your own anti-gay bias. It's not working for you though. It's pretty plain.

                                Comment

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