School ‘Correct’ to Ban U.S. Flag T-Shirts for Campus Safety

[Outis]

Shouldn't the schools be focusing on those who commit violent acts rather than rewarding them by censoring things that some of them oppose?

I quite agree.

Shouldn't they be teaching that people have a right to express ideas that you may not like?

Priorities, Rogue. When you have time to teach such things, yes, they most certainly should be taught. When kids show up with something provocative, and you have to respond quickly before the fight breaks out, you do what you have to do.

I also have to note that some people choose to teach that the world is a wider place than just your own backyard, and there are other cultures besides your own. Much of the decisions on what to teach in regards to other cultures is set at the state level, not at the school level. While you may or may not agree with the wisdom of doing so, it is the school's responsibility to teach the curriculum that their state has required.

[Darth Executor]

When kids show up with something provocative

If an immigrant considers their host country's flag provocative they should be thrown out of said country. And you should be thrown out with them.

[Jedidiah]

That would take courage.

Amen.

Something they clearly demonstrated they did not have. Yes.

[Jedidiah]

If an immigrant considers their host country's flag provocative they should be thrown out of said country. And you should be thrown out with them.

It is true that the American flag is for all Americans.

[Outis]

It is true that the American flag is for all Americans.

As the grandson of an immigrant (all of my other immigrant ancestors go back farther), I see the value in both holding onto my ancestors' identity and in being proud of being an American. Yes, I agree that the American flag is for all Americans. I am also aware of just how much damage can be caused by the "Foreigner, go home" mindset that frequently wraps itself in a flag.

[Darth Executor]

lol @ idioutis awkwardly trying to insert himself into a group he doesn't belong in. "I have as many as one grandfather who were born in another country!"

[phank]

Sounds to me like the school administrators were unimaginative bureaucrats, who just wanted to go through their daily motions peacefully, draw their paychecks, and not be bothered with problems. So, seeing this coming for months in advance, they apparently paid no attention in the hopes that it would somehow just go away and leave them alone.

It also seems that the model here was of rival gangs, wearing rival colors in a teenage attempt at goading and mutual antagonism. These shirts weren't being worn by accident, they were being worn to trigger incidents, for which they could blame one another and see each other with even more contempt than they already did.

I think at the very least, the imaginative and pro-active administrator could have turned this into an inclusive occasion, had the students write essays on the history of Cinco de Mayo, declare it "international heritage day" and encourage everyone to bring their flags, wear their flags, bring other flags, and so on. In other words, take control of the problem rather than let the problem control them. I'm sure a competent administrator familir with the environment could have found even better approaches.

[Darth Executor]

Sounds to me like the school administrators were unimaginative bureaucrats, who just wanted to go through their daily motions peacefully, draw their paychecks, and not be bothered with problems. So, seeing this coming for months in advance, they apparently paid no attention in the hopes that it would somehow just go away and leave them alone.

It also seems that the model here was of rival gangs, wearing rival colors in a teenage attempt at goading and mutual antagonism. These shirts weren't being worn by accident, they were being worn to trigger incidents, for which they could blame one another and see each other with even more contempt than they already did.

I think at the very least, the imaginative and pro-active administrator could have turned this into an inclusive occasion, had the students write essays on the history of Cinco de Mayo, declare it "international heritage day" and encourage everyone to bring their flags, wear their flags, bring other flags, and so on. In other words, take control of the problem rather than let the problem control them. I'm sure a competent administrator familir with the environment could have found even better approaches.

[Carrikature]

Lao, I thought you would be more of an advocate of the right of free speech/expression.

I don't think minors have that right. There's plenty of precedence for that.

[Outis]

I don't think minors have that right. There's plenty of precedence for that.

Actually, they do ... but it's limited.

Come to think of it, there are NO rights that are not limited. Even fundamental Constitutional rights can be abrogated, _if_ the government has sufficient interest, if the restriction is narrowly tailored, and if the method selected is the "least intrusive." In this case, the school had a compelling interest in protecting the safety of the students: this was the method they chose to assert their interest in the safety of the students.

There is no such thing as an "unlimited right" under our Constitution.

[Carrikature]

Actually, they do ... but it's limited.

Come to think of it, there are NO rights that are not limited. Even fundamental Constitutional rights can be abrogated, _if_ the government has sufficient interest, if the restriction is narrowly tailored, and if the method selected is the "least intrusive." In this case, the school had a compelling interest in protecting the safety of the students: this was the method they chose to assert their interest in the safety of the students.

There is no such thing as an "unlimited right" under our Constitution.

Right.

[Darth Executor]

Actually, they do ... but it's limited.

Come to think of it, there are NO rights that are not limited. Even fundamental Constitutional rights can be abrogated, _if_ the government has sufficient interest, if the restriction is narrowly tailored, and if the method selected is the "least intrusive." In this case, the school had a compelling interest in protecting the safety of the students: this was the method they chose to assert their interest in the safety of the students.

None of this is true.

There is no such thing as an "unlimited right" under our Constitution.

Only because some clauses are vague and others are contradictory. But nowhere does the Constitution permit that its rights can be abrogated if the government has "sufficient interest". That's precisely the type of abuse that makes the constitution a long running joke.

[phank]

None of this is true.

Actually, all of it is self-evident. Any large and complex nation cannot possibly be governed by following a few rigid rules with a zero-tolerance mentality. The Constitution shouldn't be expected to anticipate and spell out in detail every sensible action that should be taken in all conceivable sets of circumstances. It's certainly a helpful document (but not essential, and stable nations without written constitutions have existed for centuries), but no nation can survive without relying on the judgment, experience, and wisdom of its best people.

And thankfully, reasonable people see the dangers of following simple rules blindly in all possible circumstances. Genuine, legitimate interests are forever in conflict, and a successful government manages conflict.

[Epoetker]

Actually, all of it is self-evident. Any large and complex nation cannot possibly be governed by following a few rigid rules with a zero-tolerance mentality. The Constitution shouldn't be expected to anticipate and spell out in detail every sensible action that should be taken in all conceivable sets of circumstances. It's certainly a helpful document (but not essential, and stable nations without written constitutions have existed for centuries), but no nation can survive without relying on the judgment, experience, and wisdom of its best people.

So, not Mexicans, then.

And thankfully, reasonable people see the dangers of following simple rules blindly in all possible circumstances. Genuine, legitimate interests are forever in conflict, and a successful government manages conflict.

No, a successful government resolves conflict. A government that wants to collect paychecks to feel important treats every petty grievance as a Serious Matter and speaks of the need to pay 'their best people' to manage them. I'm going to guess phank favors the latter.

[Epoetker]

It also seems that the model here was of rival gangs, wearing rival colors in a teenage attempt at goading and mutual antagonism. These shirts weren't being worn by accident, they were being worn to trigger incidents, for which they could blame one another and see each other with even more contempt than they already did.

Or possibly they were being worn to force the school administrators to take sides.

I think at the very least, the imaginative and pro-active administrator could have turned this into an inclusive occasion, had the students write essays on the history of Cinco de Mayo, declare it "international heritage day" and encourage everyone to bring their flags, wear their flags, bring other flags, and so on.

So, let me get this straight:

You, phank, propose that a school administrator, some bloodless, talentless, and unimaginative bureaucrat, now has the power to declare holidays, rewrite history, force other students to write feel-good essays on history, and start traditions?

In other words, take control of the problem rather than let the problem control them.

Yes, to you liberals the actual facts of history, holidays, and traditions have always been problems, haven't they?

I'm sure a competent administrator familir with the environment could have found even better approaches.

Thank you, Dr. Breen.