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School ‘Correct’ to Ban U.S. Flag T-Shirts for Campus Safety

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  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    If an immigrant considers their host country's flag provocative they should be thrown out of said country. And you should be thrown out with them.
    It is true that the American flag is for all Americans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That would take courage.
    Amen.

    Something they clearly demonstrated they did not have. Yes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Executor
    replied
    Originally posted by Outis View Post
    When kids show up with something provocative
    If an immigrant considers their host country's flag provocative they should be thrown out of said country. And you should be thrown out with them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Outis
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Shouldn't the schools be focusing on those who commit violent acts rather than rewarding them by censoring things that some of them oppose?
    I quite agree.

    Shouldn't they be teaching that people have a right to express ideas that you may not like?
    Priorities, Rogue. When you have time to teach such things, yes, they most certainly should be taught. When kids show up with something provocative, and you have to respond quickly before the fight breaks out, you do what you have to do.

    I also have to note that some people choose to teach that the world is a wider place than just your own backyard, and there are other cultures besides your own. Much of the decisions on what to teach in regards to other cultures is set at the state level, not at the school level. While you may or may not agree with the wisdom of doing so, it is the school's responsibility to teach the curriculum that their state has required.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Far be it for me to defend lao but I don't see him actually endorsing the ban. I think he's saying the school just took one of a set of bad options because they didn't really have a better choice. I think that position is quite sympathetic.
    Thanks for the clarification. As I said I hadn't read the entire thread. Yes, I'm lazy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Shouldn't the schools be focusing on those who commit violent acts rather than rewarding them by censoring others?
    That would take courage.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Outis View Post
    The context here is not simply the apparel, it's also the history of violence. Both must be considered. In the last case, ESPECIALLY if there had been a history of violence, yes, I would certainly support censoring those wearing Japanese flag shirts ... especially if they were wearing the battle flag.

    Looking only at the context of the garb, and ignoring the violence aspect, results in a very incomplete picture.
    Shouldn't the schools be focusing on those who commit violent acts rather than rewarding them by censoring things that some of them oppose? Shouldn't they be teaching that people have a right to express ideas that you may not like?

    Leave a comment:


  • Darth Executor
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Lao, I thought you would be more of an advocate of the right of free speech/expression. May I assume that you would be outraged if a school official ordered a student to turn their shirt inside out if they wore one with the image of, say Che Guevara, on Presidents Day (or Memorial Day, or Veteran's Day or Independence Day)? Or if they wore a shirt with a flag of any different country aside from the U.S. on it on Flag Day or some of the other holidays mentioned above[1]? Force them to turn it inside out? How about someone wearing a rainbow flag on Flag Day? What about a shirt depicting the red Japanese rising sun on Pearl Harbor Day?

    What about someone wearing a shirt from a heavy metal band with Satanic imagery on it coming to school on Good Friday or Ash Wednesday? Should they be forced to turn it inside out to keep from provoking someone (assuming they're permitted to wear those shirts on other days)?

    Should the schools be allowed to ask students to cover decals on their car windows or bumper stickers on certain days because they are afraid they might incite someone to vandalize the vehicles?

    I'm just wondering how consistently you want to apply these rules (and apologize if you have already responded to similar questions since I haven't read the entire thread).





    1. Yes I realize that several of those days take place when schools aren't normally in session but let's ignore that for the sake or argument or assume that we're talking about summer school or something.
    Far be it for me to defend lao but I don't see him actually endorsing the ban. I think he's saying the school just took one of a set of bad options because they didn't really have a better choice. I think that position is quite sympathetic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    I realize another thing I did -- I used the exact headline from the article as the title for the thread, which, in retrospect, wasn't very smart. It may have caused some to believe that was my "position".

    (At least it was spelled correctly )

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Outis View Post
    The context here is not simply the apparel, it's also the history of violence. Both must be considered. In the last case, ESPECIALLY if there had been a history of violence, yes, I would certainly support censoring those wearing Japanese flag shirts ... especially if they were wearing the battle flag.

    Looking only at the context of the garb, and ignoring the violence aspect, results in a very incomplete picture.
    And when I started the thread, I knew I didn't have all the facts yet, which is why I ended the OP with a question. I assumed more facts would come out, and they did.

    I believe I even made reference to the "using your liberty as a stumbling block" principle for Christians - meaning that I support their right to wear the flag t-shirts UNLESS it was a calculated effort to incite violence. Same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater -- there comes a time when responsibility has to temper liberty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Outis
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    May I assume that you would be outraged if a school official ordered a student to turn their shirt inside out if they wore one with the image of, say Che Guevara, on Presidents Day (or Memorial Day, or Veteran's Day or Independence Day)? Or if they wore a shirt with a flag of any different country aside from the U.S. on it on Flag Day or some of the other holidays mentioned above[1]? Force them to turn it inside out? How about someone wearing a rainbow flag on Flag Day? What about a shirt depicting the red Japanese rising sun on Pearl Harbor Day?
    The context here is not simply the apparel, it's also the history of violence. Both must be considered. In the last case, ESPECIALLY if there had been a history of violence, yes, I would certainly support censoring those wearing Japanese flag shirts ... especially if they were wearing the battle flag.

    Looking only at the context of the garb, and ignoring the violence aspect, results in a very incomplete picture.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Lao, I thought you would be more of an advocate of the right of free speech/expression. May I assume that you would be outraged if a school official ordered a student to turn their shirt inside out if they wore one with the image of, say Che Guevara, on Presidents Day (or Memorial Day, or Veteran's Day or Independence Day)? Or if they wore a shirt with a flag of any different country aside from the U.S. on it on Flag Day or some of the other holidays mentioned above[1]? Force them to turn it inside out? How about someone wearing a rainbow flag on Flag Day? What about a shirt depicting the red Japanese rising sun on Pearl Harbor Day?

    What about someone wearing a shirt from a heavy metal band with Satanic imagery on it coming to school on Good Friday or Ash Wednesday? Should they be forced to turn it inside out to keep from provoking someone (assuming they're permitted to wear those shirts on other days)?

    Should the schools be allowed to ask students to cover decals on their car windows or bumper stickers on certain days because they are afraid they might incite someone to vandalize the vehicles?

    I'm just wondering how consistently you want to apply these rules (and apologize if you have already responded to similar questions since I haven't read the entire thread).





    1. Yes I realize that several of those days take place when schools aren't normally in session but let's ignore that for the sake or argument or assume that we're talking about summer school or something.
    Last edited by rogue06; 03-01-2014, 01:51 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
    An admirable display of disguising your thoughts, then.
    When you take the "text" out of "context", all you have left is a "con"

    Leave a comment:


  • Juvenal
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    http://nation.time.com/2014/02/28/sc...campus-safety/

    OK, so some students were wearing American Flag t-shirts in a school that is basically 50% American 50% Hispanic.
    I think it was Cinco de Mayo (May 5th - Mexican Holiday).

    The court ruled that the safety of the school outweighed the freedom of the students to exercise their First Amendment rights of free speech.

    For Christians, this may also have a "don't use your liberty as a stumbling block" component.

    What say ye?
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    It means the school administrators are inept.
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Exactly. And all this "zero tolerance" stuff in our schools is a result of our administrators being too cowardly to make good judgement calls.
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Calm yourself, brother. I was thinking of the stupid administrators who suspend a straight-A student because his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his lunch box when she made his peanut butter and jelly sandwich, because the "zero tolerance" policy doesn't allow them the discretion to make an exception. Or the school system that suspends an elementary school kid and labels him a sexual predator because he hugged a girl.
    An admirable display of disguising your thoughts, then. Heck, even I, with all the care I took to follow the chain of posts, didn't see that coming.

    This is America --- you have the freedom to be wrong.
    You're right.

    *ba-dum-tish*

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That was me, and I stand by what I said.
    Exactly.

    As ever, Jesse

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    Where did I say anything about judgment or cowardice?
    That was me, and I stand by what I said.

    Leave a comment:

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