Originally posted by Darth Executor
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School ‘Correct’ to Ban U.S. Flag T-Shirts for Campus Safety
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Originally posted by Outis View PostWhen kids show up with something provocative
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostShouldn't the schools be focusing on those who commit violent acts rather than rewarding them by censoring things that some of them oppose?
Shouldn't they be teaching that people have a right to express ideas that you may not like?
I also have to note that some people choose to teach that the world is a wider place than just your own backyard, and there are other cultures besides your own. Much of the decisions on what to teach in regards to other cultures is set at the state level, not at the school level. While you may or may not agree with the wisdom of doing so, it is the school's responsibility to teach the curriculum that their state has required.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostFar be it for me to defend lao but I don't see him actually endorsing the ban. I think he's saying the school just took one of a set of bad options because they didn't really have a better choice. I think that position is quite sympathetic.
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Originally posted by Outis View PostThe context here is not simply the apparel, it's also the history of violence. Both must be considered. In the last case, ESPECIALLY if there had been a history of violence, yes, I would certainly support censoring those wearing Japanese flag shirts ... especially if they were wearing the battle flag.
Looking only at the context of the garb, and ignoring the violence aspect, results in a very incomplete picture.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostLao, I thought you would be more of an advocate of the right of free speech/expression. May I assume that you would be outraged if a school official ordered a student to turn their shirt inside out if they wore one with the image of, say Che Guevara, on Presidents Day (or Memorial Day, or Veteran's Day or Independence Day)? Or if they wore a shirt with a flag of any different country aside from the U.S. on it on Flag Day or some of the other holidays mentioned above[1]? Force them to turn it inside out? How about someone wearing a rainbow flag on Flag Day? What about a shirt depicting the red Japanese rising sun on Pearl Harbor Day?
What about someone wearing a shirt from a heavy metal band with Satanic imagery on it coming to school on Good Friday or Ash Wednesday? Should they be forced to turn it inside out to keep from provoking someone (assuming they're permitted to wear those shirts on other days)?
Should the schools be allowed to ask students to cover decals on their car windows or bumper stickers on certain days because they are afraid they might incite someone to vandalize the vehicles?
I'm just wondering how consistently you want to apply these rules (and apologize if you have already responded to similar questions since I haven't read the entire thread).
1. Yes I realize that several of those days take place when schools aren't normally in session but let's ignore that for the sake or argument or assume that we're talking about summer school or something.
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I realize another thing I did -- I used the exact headline from the article as the title for the thread, which, in retrospect, wasn't very smart. It may have caused some to believe that was my "position".
(At least it was spelled correctly )
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Originally posted by Outis View PostThe context here is not simply the apparel, it's also the history of violence. Both must be considered. In the last case, ESPECIALLY if there had been a history of violence, yes, I would certainly support censoring those wearing Japanese flag shirts ... especially if they were wearing the battle flag.
Looking only at the context of the garb, and ignoring the violence aspect, results in a very incomplete picture.
I believe I even made reference to the "using your liberty as a stumbling block" principle for Christians - meaning that I support their right to wear the flag t-shirts UNLESS it was a calculated effort to incite violence. Same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater -- there comes a time when responsibility has to temper liberty.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostMay I assume that you would be outraged if a school official ordered a student to turn their shirt inside out if they wore one with the image of, say Che Guevara, on Presidents Day (or Memorial Day, or Veteran's Day or Independence Day)? Or if they wore a shirt with a flag of any different country aside from the U.S. on it on Flag Day or some of the other holidays mentioned above[1]? Force them to turn it inside out? How about someone wearing a rainbow flag on Flag Day? What about a shirt depicting the red Japanese rising sun on Pearl Harbor Day?
Looking only at the context of the garb, and ignoring the violence aspect, results in a very incomplete picture.
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Lao, I thought you would be more of an advocate of the right of free speech/expression. May I assume that you would be outraged if a school official ordered a student to turn their shirt inside out if they wore one with the image of, say Che Guevara, on Presidents Day (or Memorial Day, or Veteran's Day or Independence Day)? Or if they wore a shirt with a flag of any different country aside from the U.S. on it on Flag Day or some of the other holidays mentioned above[1]? Force them to turn it inside out? How about someone wearing a rainbow flag on Flag Day? What about a shirt depicting the red Japanese rising sun on Pearl Harbor Day?
What about someone wearing a shirt from a heavy metal band with Satanic imagery on it coming to school on Good Friday or Ash Wednesday? Should they be forced to turn it inside out to keep from provoking someone (assuming they're permitted to wear those shirts on other days)?
Should the schools be allowed to ask students to cover decals on their car windows or bumper stickers on certain days because they are afraid they might incite someone to vandalize the vehicles?
I'm just wondering how consistently you want to apply these rules (and apologize if you have already responded to similar questions since I haven't read the entire thread).
1. Yes I realize that several of those days take place when schools aren't normally in session but let's ignore that for the sake or argument or assume that we're talking about summer school or something.Last edited by rogue06; 03-01-2014, 01:51 PM.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Posthttp://nation.time.com/2014/02/28/sc...campus-safety/
OK, so some students were wearing American Flag t-shirts in a school that is basically 50% American 50% Hispanic.
I think it was Cinco de Mayo (May 5th - Mexican Holiday).
The court ruled that the safety of the school outweighed the freedom of the students to exercise their First Amendment rights of free speech.
For Christians, this may also have a "don't use your liberty as a stumbling block" component.
What say ye?Originally posted by Paprika View PostIt means the school administrators are inept.Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostExactly. And all this "zero tolerance" stuff in our schools is a result of our administrators being too cowardly to make good judgement calls.Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostCalm yourself, brother. I was thinking of the stupid administrators who suspend a straight-A student because his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his lunch box when she made his peanut butter and jelly sandwich, because the "zero tolerance" policy doesn't allow them the discretion to make an exception. Or the school system that suspends an elementary school kid and labels him a sexual predator because he hugged a girl.
This is America --- you have the freedom to be wrong.
*ba-dum-tish*
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat was me, and I stand by what I said.
As ever, Jesse
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