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Treatment and Radicalization of Muslims: A Link?

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  • Treatment and Radicalization of Muslims: A Link?

    A Stanford research scientist published this interesting article yesterday in response to the Orlando shooting. Below are what I consider to be the most salient excerpts:

    Many assume that people who commit terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are religious zealots. Actually, many Muslim radicals were not particularly religious at the get-go. Indeed, a substantial number of Isis sympathizers are converts to Islam – hardly lifelong devotees.

    If not religion, then, what is to blame?

    Researchers have long studied the motivations of terrorists, with psychologist Arie Kruglanski proposing a particularly compelling theory: people become terrorists to restore a sense of significance in their lives, a feeling that they matter. Extremist organizations like Isis are experts at giving their recruits that sense of purpose, through status, recognition, and the promise of eternal rewards in the afterlife.

    My own survey work supports Kruglanski’s theory. I find that American Muslims who feel a lack of significance in their lives are more likely to support fundamentalist groups and extreme ideologies.

    What we really need to know now is, what sets people on this path? How do people lose their sense of purpose?

    My research reveals one answer: the more my survey respondents felt they or other Muslims had been discriminated against, the more they reported feeling a lack of meaning in their lives. Respondents who felt culturally homeless – not really American, but also not really a part of their own cultural community – were particularly jarred by messages that they don’t belong. Yet Muslim Americans who felt well integrated in both their American and Muslim communities were more resilient in the face of discrimination.


    Her takeaway:

    When politicians propose banning Muslim travel or policing Muslim communities, and when other Americans applaud and echo these sentiments, we send the message that a) Muslims are not really Americans, and b) being Muslim is something to be ashamed of.

    According to my research, this is the recipe for making American Muslims feel disenfranchised and discriminated against. We are actually planting the seeds for radicalization and essentially helping Isis recruit by fueling the narrative that the west is anti-Islam.

    So, yes, I condemn Islamophobia, but not just because I think it’s morally wrong to discriminate against a religious community. I condemn Islamophobia because the evidence shows that it is only going to worsen the problem we are trying to solve. Does this mean the American government shouldn’t do something about Isis, or that American citizens shouldn’t fight homegrown terrorism? Absolutely not. But we need to reframe our approach, and realize that targeting an entire religion is not going to get us anywhere good.


    I was surprised by her report that many ISIS sympathizers were converts to Islam, instead of people who'd been born into it and (to borrow that favorite buzzword of New Atheists) essentially "brainwashed" from birth. I'd always assumed the opposite was true. But on second thought, I know of many Christians who report feeling extreme zeal and passion in the wake of a conversion experience. I was one of them. So I guess the same dynamic could apply to Muslims.

    I had heard the argument that a certain politician's anti-Muslim plans would actually be counterproductive--ISIS tries to sell its recruits on the idea that the West is the Great Satan and is inherently hateful towards Muslims, and there would be no better confirmation of that idea than the West acting inherently hateful towards Muslims; as such, Middle-Eastern recruits who might've been skeptical will see "proof" of ISIS' claims, and any remaining traces of doubt will be erased from their heads. But I was surprised that the psychology might also apply to American Muslims.
    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

  • #2
    I find those results totally unsurprising and intuitive.

    Here's a couple of similarly interesting studies that have looked at suicide bombings from the 1980s to the present.

    Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism

    There's a faulty premise in the current strategy on the war on terrorism. That faulty premise is that suicide terrorism and al-Qaida suicide terrorism in particular is mainly driven by an evil ideology Islamic fundamentalism independent of other circumstances.

    However, the facts are that since 1980, suicide terrorist attacks from around the world over half have been secular. What over 95% of suicide attacks around the world [are about] is not religion, but a specific strategic purpose - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly and this is, in fact, a centrepiece of al-Qaida's strategic logic, which is to compel the United States and western countries to abandon military commitments on the Arabian peninsula.


    What Motivates the Suicide Bombers? Study of a comprehensive database gives a surprising answer

    ...the conventional wisdom that bombers are insane or religious fanatics is wrong. Individual bombers show no personality disorders and the attacks themselves are often politically motivated, aimed at achieving specific strategic goals such as forcing concessions or generating greater support.

    It is politics more than religious fanaticism that has led terrorists to blow themselves up.

    Apart from one demographic attribute – that the majority of suicide bombers tend to be young males – the evidence has failed to find a stable set of demographic, psychological, socioeconomic and religious variables that can be causally linked to suicide bombers’ personality or socioeconomic origins. ...Typically, most suicide bombers are psychologically normal and are deeply integrated into social networks and emotionally attached to their national communities.

    ...participating in a suicide mission is not about dying and killing alone but has a broader significance for achieving multiple purposes – ...These include gaining community approval and political success; liberating the homeland; achieving personal redemption or honor; using martyrdom to effect the survival of the community; refusing to accept subjugation; seeking revenge for personal and collective humiliation; conveying religious or nationalistic convictions; expressing guilt, shame, material and religious rewards; escaping from intolerable everyday degradations of life under occupation, boredom, anxiety and defiance.

    The causes of suicide bombings lie not in individual psychopathology but in broader social conditions.


    The misguided conservative ideas of stopping terrorism by sending Western armies to occupy the Middle East, and oppressing Muslims in the West, are policies that we know will create terrorists.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      When I was a student a good quarter to a third of my campus was Muslim. (Then 1.4 to 1.3 were Hindu and the rest Christian or whatever).

      On the 11/09/2001 I was still a student there and the general opinion of the Muslim students was America got what it deserved for sticking it's nose into other people's business.

      And these weren't new convert Muslims, these were people who had been Muslim for generations. (used to keep things fun with how much the Hindus on campus hated the Muslims and vice versa)
      Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
      1 Corinthians 16:13

      "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
      -Ben Witherington III

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
        When I was a student a good quarter to a third of my campus was Muslim. (Then 1.4 to 1.3 were Hindu and the rest Christian or whatever).

        On the 11/09/2001 I was still a student there and the general opinion of the Muslim students was America got what it deserved for sticking it's nose into other people's business.

        And these weren't new convert Muslims, these were people who had been Muslim for generations. (used to keep things fun with how much the Hindus on campus hated the Muslims and vice versa)
        But this article is talking about American Muslims.

        Also, I'm not sure your anecdote necessarily conflicts with the author's findings--if those particular students were truly terrorist sympathizers, as opposed to immature college kids making a callous joke, it could technically still be the case that they were driven by some sort of unfulfilled search for significance (just in a different context).
        Last edited by fm93; 06-14-2016, 09:34 PM.
        Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

        I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Raphael View Post
          the general opinion of the Muslim students was America got what it deserved for sticking it's nose into other people's business.
          What particular business did they perceive America as sticking its nose into?
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            What particular business did they perceive America as sticking its nose into?
            How much history do you know?
            I'm not here anymore.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
              How much history do you know?
              Oh, America's been sticking its nose into the rest of the world's business for a long time. I was merely wondering if there were one or two things that stood out to those particular students.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Raphael
                On the 11/09/2001 I was still a student there and the general opinion of the Muslim students was America got what it deserved for sticking it's nose into other people's business.
                Back when I was in school, that was the sentiment of a lot danish people as well. US foreign policy wasn't exactly popular outside of the US.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  Back when I was in school, that was the sentiment of a lot danish people as well. US foreign policy wasn't exactly popular outside of the US.
                  US foreign policy has been a lot like someone who sticks their hand into a wasps' nest, and then wonders why they are getting stung, so they start kicking the wasps' nest in order to make it stop.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    What particular business did they perceive America as sticking its nose into?
                    take your pick. mostly with mid eastern issues.

                    (and these weren't immigrants from there or anything, just fellow South Africans)
                    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                    1 Corinthians 16:13

                    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                    -Ben Witherington III

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      People often assume that there is one cause for one effect---but in reality, an effect may come about because of several causes...(...or "intersectionality".) Embedded in Modernity is the idea that some people/groups are "more equal" (entitled) than others. And this includes the collection of "nation-states". After the treaty of Westphalia (1648) the "West" established a "code of conduct" that gave certain "rights" to nation-states...
                      --The principle of the sovereignty of states and the fundamental right of political self determination
                      --The principle of legal equality between states
                      --The principle of non-intervention of one state in the internal affairs of another state
                      However, though supposedly "international" these rights were perceived as entitlements to the "West" only and were not practiced for the rest of the world. In fact, some of the nation-states were not self determined by the people of the territory---but arbitrarily drawn up by the West (Colonization period)... Such a system was bound to cause a loss of, and/or, revision of identity for non-western peoples. Further, Modernity (secularization project) replaced God/religion with the "nation" eroding the means/tool that articulated purpose/meaning. The Capitalist economic model based on the idea of the acquisition of wealth at the cost/exploitation of the other---caused further damage---countries with resources coveted by the "West" ended up with corrupt dictatorships (often secular) reducing the right to wealth/prosperity for many nations and their people.

                      This idea that some people are more equal than others was replicated in the social constructs of both the West and the rest. Modern social systems often had laws and/or norms that inherently privileged one group of people over the "other". Those who were denied rights/privileges will feel some degree of alienation from the group that receives full rights/privileges, even if they are all citizens of the same nation. Further, education which marginalized religion as superstition also marginalized ethics and morality and it also privileged a
                      science and philosophy predicated on the assumption that there is no God. This combination led to a further loss of meaning/purpose. With globalization, groupings of nations (EU, ASEAN etc),dual citizenships,...etc, even the identity of citizen of a nation becomes less useful.

                      Loss of identity, loss of purpose, loss of prospects creates a recipe for potential radicalization---This is represented by those who seek to "restore values" either through their particular understanding of religion or their particular understanding of the values of "their" culture/nation...sometimes combining the two (for ex---Hindu nationalism, Buddhist nationalism etc) Populist politicians in the West who talk about extreme measures for Muslims are exploiting the same fears and anxieties that ISIS is exploiting..except their target audience is different....

                      In trying to solve the problems we find ourselves in today...we can kill each other......or we can co-operate to make a better world.

                      In a globalized world where one identity construct is no longer sufficient---we need to normalize multiple identity-constructs.
                      We need to bring back ethics to the forefront and allow for multiple expressions of "values" within the same social systems (Pluralism)
                      and we need to create ethical economic systems that are based on sustainability, reciprocity, and equality both at the micro (community) level and the Macro (International) level...

                      Most of all---we need to harness the power of youth to creatively create change that will lead to an empowerment and betterment....
                      One example from india
                      https://www.ted.com/talks/kiran_bir_...ge?language=en
                      another example from an international level (UN)
                      http://www.creativeeconomyreport2013.com/

                      One perspective of the problem (Scott Atran)
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlbirlSA-dc

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I saw this headline today and immediately thought of this thread...
                        CIA Chief Just Confirmed "War on Terror" Has Created A Lot More Terrorists.
                        Self explanatory really. As much as the US has killed people in the middle east, their actions and interventions have angered more people and inspired more people to join the cause than the number of terrorists killed. The more people the US kills, the worse they do.


                        I guess what the US must really need is Donald Trump's crazy strategy of killing innocent people around terrorists:
                        "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families."
                        Because the more innocent people the US kills in the middle east, the more that other people in the middle east will like the US... right?
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          As much as the US has killed people in the middle east, their actions and interventions have angered more people and inspired more people to join the cause than the number of terrorists killed. The more people the US kills, the worse they do.
                          Imagine how many Jihadists Obama made with all his drone strikes. BTW Brennan NEVER SAID that our actions were inspiring more people to join the cause, that was the leftist commentary in the article. And also remember we would not have the problem in Libya that we do if it was not for the failed Policy of Obama and Hillary.
                          Last edited by seer; 06-16-2016, 07:50 PM.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Imagine how many Jihadists Obama made with all his drone strikes.
                            Plenty of Muslims repudiate/oppose ISIS, so probably not as many as there would be made by imposing a ban on Muslims altogether.
                            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Drones = American Terrorism
                              https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ikes-kill-1147

                              "The drones came for Ayman Zawahiri on 13 January 2006, hovering over a village in Pakistan called Damadola. Ten months later, they came again for the man who would become al-Qaida’s leader, this time in Bajaur.


                              Eight years later, Zawahiri is still alive. Seventy-six children and 29 adults, according to reports after the two strikes, are not.

                              However many Americans know who Zawahiri is, far fewer are familiar with Qari Hussain. Hussain was a deputy commander of the Pakistani Taliban, a militant group aligned with al-Qaida that trained the would-be Times Square bomber, Faisal Shahzad, before his unsuccessful 2010 attack. The drones first came for Hussain years before, on 29 January 2008. Then they came on 23 June 2009, 15 January 2010, 2 October 2010 and 7 October 2010.

                              Finally, on 15 October 2010, Hellfire missiles fired from a Predator or Reaper drone killed Hussain, the Pakistani Taliban later confirmed. For the death of a man whom practically no American can name, the US killed 128 people, 13 of them children, none of whom it meant to harm.

                              A new analysis of the data available to the public about drone strikes, conducted by the human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November."

                              Collateral Murder--intellectually handicapped U.S. drone operators kill cameraman thinking his camera is a weapon!!
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

                              Stop Ramstein--No Drone War
                              Germans protest Drone warfare as against their morality
                              http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKCN0YX0FM

                              How can we deradicalize Americans?

                              Comment

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