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Villifying the MRMs

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  • Villifying the MRMs

    Okay I am posting this after reading a god-awful piece by a MRA author, but what I am speaking about is more conceptual, not any particular author. What has bugged me in many MRM/MRA discussion is the idea that it is okay to simply vilify the idea that certain groups should have activism to speak for their rights. To me it is irrelevant if the majority of the MRA writers are misogynist asses. What I seem to hear is that misogynist asshattery is inherent to the idea of Men's Rights, men have no right to be worried about their rights!

    And that bugs me.

    But since I dislike most of the sites and authors why do I want to defend the idea of the movement? I think it is when we defend the idea of the right of such movements to exist and the justice value in all people having a right to advocate for their rights WHEN WE DISAGREE WITH MOST OF THEM that we are truly advocating rights.

    I probably worded that really crappy. But there it is.

    Now I gotta go scrub my brain of the VFM article on how wonderful women have it under Islam. (to be fair, he was speaking of Iran, a very westernized society, but some of the commenters, OMG)
    The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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  • #2
    For those of you worried I am spending too much time on this subject, please think back to the old TWeb. I get really interested in researching something, post about it a few months, and then move on. Right now my interest in is reading things that challenge the narrative. And have been spending time on many extreme sites, both extreme feminist and not, and those arguing against gender. I have disliked and disagreed with nearly all of them, but what I have disliked most of all is the tactic of shouting down or auto-villification that is just rampant on all of them.

    I read something though that made me question something in general about our desire for truth, and whether we value that more than comfort, that I will post on separately.
    The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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    • #3
      Men crying about muh rights is... unmanly. It's probably part of why people don't even bother to nod and smile like they do when a crazy feminist is shrieking at them.

      Welcome to the world of double standards (possibly offensive language warning):
      http://puu.sh/78JvA

      Also, not really relevant but I think I found seasanctuary's twitter account:

      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren
        Now I gotta go scrub my brain of the VFM article on how wonderful women have it under Islam.
        Or you could...not read Paul Elam. His positions and his tactics scream of a strategy of getting power through party politics and democratic activism, i.e., exactly the same way feminists did. Even if, like Anders Brevik, his drive-bys are more spectacular than Jessica Valenti's, he's still playing what's fundamentally a gangster's game. Remove democracy and party politics from your reading material, stick to the truth and those who fight for it. Unless you're, say, desperately clinging to the most marginal voices in order to delude yourself that this is all about bitter clingers or whatever.

        If I want something Mens Rightsy, I generally go for Dalrock, and increasingly, Sunshine Mary, as they waste no time targeting the Christians and the churches pushing feminism-lite and corrupting the consciences of young men and women with dreams of avarice and idolatry at an early age.

        But really, my reading rotation at the moment is mainly:

        Steve Sailer (If he isn't at the top of your list, you're doing something wrong. If you're not reading vdare.com, you're doing something wrong BY AMERICA.)

        Vox Day, whose bold stand against the SFWA types inspired John C. Wright, (whom I recall often being trotted out as the Respectable Counterexample to Us Fascist Reactionaries in the past, though those posters aren't posting anymore,) to write a very good series of articles on the corruption of sci-fi due to the introduction of "Strong Female Characters."

        The Spearhead, which had the good sense to fire Paul Elam, though I suppose Paul would say he quit.

        Mencius Moldbug if I want a long-winded and link-heavy secularist take on the progressives who came to power over the past two centuries, Jim if I want a very short one. "I walked to Master Moldbug but the road was too long. I visited master Jim and he hit me with a stick."

        Stuff Black People Don't Like for the daily police blotter in Black-Run America, Those Who Can See for the more nuanced appraisal.

        Gucci Little Piggy for RACISM from a waiter's perspective, Education Realist for RACISM from a teacher's perspective, Second City Cop for RACISM from a police officer's perspective, and last but certainly not least, Federale for RACISM and immigration from a federal agent's perspective.

        Heartiste, the Devil's Virtuoso. Find his site yourself.

        And Radish Magazine, which pulls a lot of these guys together for some nicely organized articles on the historic and present day, and whose latest article is a fitting rejoinder to the OP.

        Go forth, you have a lot of better reading material to get through and only so many hours in the day to get to it.
        Last edited by Epoetker; 02-25-2014, 02:16 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I spend my day reading various views, and actually my starting page is usually manbooz, of which you don't approve. At times some of those sites you mention come through my browser along with opposition sites.

          Heartiste is a disgusting pig. No thank you.

          I have read Stuff Black People Don't Like and find it stupidly racist.

          You see, I don't have an issue with addressing gender issues and race issues, but when people address them like asshats or pigs, I have zero interest.

          There are right ways and wrong ways to engage. I value my mind too much to waste time on those who don't bother to try to do things the right way. The Spearhead used to be more interesting. It is boring as hell right now and their article on dude-bros was mind-numbing.

          LOL Vox Day, yes, he will not introduce women characters into a game with orcs and trolls due to historical verisimilitude. LOL.

          I will check out Steve Sailer. That wasn't something I was regularly aware of. I like this statement on his site "When something big happens, it's useful to read articles carefully for details before a Narrative hardens."

          The "narrative" is what I am trying to explore in my other thread.
          Last edited by Darth Xena; 02-25-2014, 07:30 AM.
          The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

          sigpic

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
            You see, I don't have an issue with addressing gender issues and race issues, but when people address them like asshats or pigs, I have zero interest.
            Manboobz addresses issues like an asshat too...
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't find him so. Pointed yes, but a lot of the time he is dealing with the worst of the MRM
              The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

              sigpic

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              • #8
                I know what struck me about that Islam article that was posted. It reminded me of how people want to point out that black slaves were actually fortunate- think about all of the responsibilities of the plantation owner they were spared from.

                And on the head coverings he was like well it isn't a burqa. So... How much mandatory accessories are okay to mark someone? Well a small little yellow star ain't so bad--- following his logic.
                The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                  I know what struck me about that Islam article that was posted. It reminded me of how people want to point out that black slaves were actually fortunate- think about all of the responsibilities of the plantation owner they were spared from.

                  And on the head coverings he was like well it isn't a burqa. So... How much mandatory accessories are okay to mark someone? Well a small little yellow star ain't so bad--- following his logic.
                  I dunno which article you mean, only thing on Epo's list that I read more than occasionally is Steve Sailer.

                  In regards to the slavery stuff, saying slaves had it better than the slave owners is pure retardation. If one wants to counter the endless guilt tripping over what some dead people did to some other dead people 300 years ago it's much better to remind the world of the crimes of northern industrialists. The north treated its cheap labor (particularly the irish) considerably worse than southern slave owners treated their slaves. And the Northern model of slavery where more and more cheap labour is brought in to displace native workers who aren't as willing to break their backs 12 hours a day living 8 in a house making 5-10 dollars an hour is still going strong today.
                  "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                  There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry I do some free association and assumes everyone knows what I mean. I mentioned in the OP that A Voice for Men had an article on how great women have it in Iran (and yes I know Iran is very westernized so not the typical Muskim country)
                    The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Pointed yes, but a lot of the time he is dealing with the worst of the MRM
                      And why on earth would I be interested in reading the worst of the MRM, or one who informs themselves from the worst of the MRM?

                      Reading Manboobz or Elam or Jessica Valenti is like saying you get all your info on public issues from National Review or MSNBC, it's a great big sign saying ONLY OPINIONS ACCEPTABLE TO NIGHTLY NEWS ANCHORS AND WASHINGTON THINKTANKS HERE.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Fail at reading comprehension. You took your definition of what you think the worst are and assumed I said he was only dealing with them. Yet he dealt with someone you advocated, Vox, on the absolutely retarded claim that he won't put female characters in his video games featuring orcs and trolls as females would lack historical verisimilitude, like orcs and trolls do.

                        Second, the best MRM reading material deals with the worst of feminism. You can't have it both ways. The majority of MRM stuff is informed by the worst of feminism, but the worst of feminism DOES need to be exposed, just like the worst of the MRMs. They are both mirror image reactionary movements IMHO. You can't see good in one. I can see good in both as both sides have points.

                        Manboobz has dealt with all the people you listed, except perhaps Sailer… don't know much about him, and never saw him referenced there.
                        The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                          Fail at reading comprehension. You took your definition of what you think the worst are and assumed I said he was only dealing with them. Yet he dealt with someone you advocated, Vox, on the absolutely retarded claim that he won't put female characters in his video games featuring orcs and trolls as females would lack historical verisimilitude, like orcs and trolls do.

                          Second, the best MRM reading material deals with the worst of feminism. You can't have it both ways. The majority of MRM stuff is informed by the worst of feminism, but the worst of feminism DOES need to be exposed, just like the worst of the MRMs. They are both mirror image reactionary movements IMHO. You can't see good in one. I can see good in both as both sides have points.

                          Manboobz has dealt with all the people you listed, except perhaps Sailer… don't know much about him, and never saw him referenced there.
                          Sailer doesn't have much of anything to do with MRM so there wouldn't be any reason for him to show up there.
                          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                            Sailer doesn't have much of anything to do with MRM so there wouldn't be any reason for him to show up there.
                            Sailer led me to Welmer, who later started The Spearhead.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                              Fail at reading comprehension. You took your definition of what you think the worst are and assumed I said he was only dealing with them. Yet he dealt with someone you advocated, Vox, on the absolutely retarded claim that he won't put female characters in his video games featuring orcs and trolls as females would lack historical verisimilitude, like orcs and trolls do.
                              A rather ungracious and deliberately unfair comparison, wouldn't you say? A man may fight an orc as he may fight an angry wrestler, in both cases the response of a normal person to a woman fighting the same is the breaking of the suspension of disbelief, one of the biggest reasons why 300 is beloved but Sucker Punch is reviled. It's the type of lazy and boring opening I expect from a political operative, meant to waste time.

                              Second, the best MRM reading material deals with the worst of feminism. You can't have it both ways. The majority of MRM stuff is informed by the worst of feminism, but the worst of feminism DOES need to be exposed, just like the worst of the MRMs. They are both mirror image reactionary movements IMHO. You can't see good in one. I can see good in both as both sides have points.
                              The philosophy of equality is an immature and glib way of looking at the world, that will not survive in my presence. Feminism is evil precisely because it does not give up this demand for equality even when its tactics grow less openly crazy, having created enough anger and unpopularity to demand a reframe. If your heart still rebels, I will forgive a thousand sins on the part of your enemies who are at least aiming for the truth.

                              Manboobz has dealt with all the people you listed, except perhaps Sailer… don't know much about him, and never saw him referenced there.
                              Manboobz has taught you nothing more than to play highfalutin' political games, and must be dropped from your reading rotation if you expect me to take your criticism as anything other than unremarkable fluff. I seem to recall you being better than this.

                              Comment

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